Bad Economy System...

[Miklander]

First of all the game itself feels in general quite nice and i enjoy the most raiding the other ships.

But the economy in the game does not cut it for me.

PotBS is game and as a game it should be fun Economy in PotBS feels like work and not fun at all.

Now lets make it simple as far as i know i should be able to play the game without degree in Market economics or statistics. The thing in the economy system is that Basicly for you to be able to figure it out you need to have the degree on 1 or other it seems atleast in general. Also setting up even the most simple production line you need to either have insane amount of dubloons or patience of saint.

I have been explained and tried to figure out the economic side of the game since Stress test1 and still the more i try it the more i hate it.

Ofcourse the auction system does not help it is lacking by far for options and filters and basicly the blind auction as idea sounds good in paper does not work so well in practice. (others might disagree but this is my honest opinion and i am allowed to express it) Example even by adding filter that you could search for certain level range items would help when searching for ships/equipment.

Now about the Economy Tutorial well it is step to right direction BUT you could explain in it the economy system even in more detail and in the end it would be nice that it would produce somekind usefull produce in the end instead of just gravel and lumber.

[ZaiRoX]

Try finding a production line on a fansite (like www.merchantsoftheburningsea.com). Follow it and you will get an easier grasp of the economic system. You are correct that starting out in the economy requires alot of money. Atleast 15000 or so, but ones you have everything up and running it doesn't require much effort at all.

[PekkaR]

I suggest that for light participation in the economy while keeping it as a source of income to support your other playing, you pick a raw material used in ship building and/or outfittings and sell it. Or make iron or ammo or similar item that also sells reliably even if profit margins will be relatively low over time.


Now about the Economy Tutorial well it is step to right direction BUT you could explain in it the economy system even in more detail and in the end it would be nice that it would produce somekind usefull produce in the end instead of just gravel and lumber.

Those are the two most useful materials for building structures. The reason you'd call them useless is that it's not easy to make money selling them right now, and that's simply because they're in the economy tutorial. Everybody has them or has had them up for a while.

That said, those are among the products I'm making a profit with. I ship them to ports where they aren't being made and people would rather pay a bit of extra than go fetch for themselves. Or they're ignorant about the pricing elsewhere. Transporting goods like this pays off better in ships with more capacity, which is why Freetrader ships can be so nice for making money.

[Katier]

Whilst setting up a production line is expensive and tricky, once it's done streaming out product is almost insanely easy.

That plus the lower stuff doesn't require anything like the setup costs you need for ships.

[Heptarch]

I don't have a lot of sympathy for posters like this. It's apparent from your post that you don't really want an involved economy, you want a simple one. This tells me that you're not a "crafter" but rather that you just want something really easy to dabble in.

What I think you're ignoring is that other people play games like this for the express purpose of being involved in a deep, complex economy. If it's too much for you, you don't have to take part in it. Just buy your things from the people willing to dedicate their time and effort and go do the things you DO enjoy.

[ispeedonthe405]

The crafting game is already pretty simple.

There's no variation in crafted items; my cannonball is no different than yours. I can't put in work to make a given thing any better than you can. My customers have no idea who I am, nor do I have any idea who they are, because all interaction between us is blind. Honestly, I might as well be an NPC.

Sure, it may seem like a PITA to establish your facilities but once that's done all you really do is click a couple of buttons. It doesn't get much simpler than this.

[Ekibiogami]

I don't have a lot of sympathy for posters like this. It's apparent from your post that you don't really want an involved economy, you want a simple one. This tells me that you're not a "crafter" but rather that you just want something really easy to dabble in.

What I think you're ignoring is that other people play games like this for the express purpose of being involved in a deep, complex economy. If it's too much for you, you don't have to take part in it. Just buy your things from the people willing to dedicate their time and effort and go do the things you DO enjoy.

^^ This. The Econamy is Great. There are FAR to many Stupid and Overly Easy Systems out there. Dont like this Plz GO AWAY!

[Jacobite]

^^ This. The Econamy is Great. There are FAR to many Stupid and Overly Easy Systems out there. Dont like this Plz GO AWAY!

How rude.

no people=no game

[Lady China]

How rude.

no people=no game

No no, he's right. The more complex the game is, the quicker the kiddies move to greener pastures and the adults can have their fun. Keep the economy system the way it is, please.

[Asmodeous]

No no, he's right. The more complex the game is, the quicker the kiddies move to greener pastures and the adults can have their fun. Keep the economy system the way it is, please.

I'd actually like it to be a bit more complicated.

I think it's fairly overly-simplified. -.-;;

Me.

[Miklander]

Well i think i awoke few Forum trolls that have nothing better to do than to write first thing that comes in their mind and nothing constructive (last 4 posts)

Other than that i can Answer in more Detail I still do Economy related things in other games like in EVE (t2 production) and there the production is more detailed easier to grasp and the economy is working lot better than in PotBS. Now why is that? OK i have to admit the economy is easier in EVE than in potbs but i still need to haul things around to be able to produce things so that does not change it takes time to construct things (basicly same thing as labour) but what it does not have is to make the production chain too complicated and time consuming to set up. From day 1 you are able to produce simple items of wide variety in EVE. In PotBS no you are not able to do that.

I am sorry i have to compare the economy to EVE economy because of similiarities and the way both work

And still i wonder how some casual player can have time to figure out how the economy works with the current system with lacking tutorial and bad system.

Also maybe it would help if the ingame would have graphical chart that you could look and see what is needed to produce certain things instead of just names of items splashed in 1 big list.

[Breckon]

A couple of points. Economy start up is complicated and expensive. This will take care of itself in a few week when we start see more players. Also port contention is turned off. Once that goes away and the wars start the economy will kick start. Note: Since that happen at official launch expect a burst in high prices since we will be seeing new players at the same time.

[Asmodeous]

The economy in Eve is working far better than the economy in PotBS because the Economy in PotBS is 7 days old and the Economy in Eve is almost 8 years old. Obviously the Eve economy is going to be a lot more healthy than the one in PotBS.

Also, the economy in PotBS is not that difficult, in fact, it's incredibly simplistic, far more so than the Economy of Eve in many ways, although its inter-dependancy is a bit more complicated in other ways. Though I do agree that the tutorial could be a little bit more in depth about how to find the information you need on how to create a supply line (not telling you how to actually do it, but telling you to hit F1, for instance, and look up the recipes. . or maybe right-click on recipes. . . or. . . hmm. . . nevermind, that's nothing you need a tutorial for I suppose. . .)

The point is, if you don't like how complicated it is to build something like ships, or that confuses you, don't think so high, start smaller. Did you know that you can make more money selling Iron Ingots than selling Locust Corvettes? I'm not even joking! Those corvettes don't sink very often, and they're only profitable while people need to replace them, so they're a low-yeild income, which is why they tend to have the highest price gouging.

But Iron Ingots? You need those little bastards for damn near everything! And they're easy to make! You only need 5 buildings, you can spend 10 minutes a day doing your economy and rake in tons of dubloons doing virtually nothing! Eve's economy hasn't got crap on that kind of simplicity! All you have to do is set up a couple limestone quarries, a mine, and a few forges, and click a button maybe 8 times. BAM! Cash money!

The problem is people seem to be expecting a healthy economy straight off the bat. This is why they did the preboard. You think they're doing you a favor by letting you play early? Well, I mean they are I suppose, but really they're building a healthy starter-economy for when the rest of the people come into the live game. Why do you think the level cap is 21 and you're not allowed to contest ports? We're in the "make an economy that isn't dead" stage of the game.

Comparing a 7 day old economy to an 8 year old economy is a fairly poor way to say that you don't like how it works and that it's too complicated. If you think it's too complicated, lower the level of complication you are dealing with one notch by moving closer to the "raw materials" part of the supply chain.

You only have to make it as complicated and time-consuming as you want it to be.

Me.

Edit: Happy now? Constructive enough? :| Really I could have summed this entire post up in the sentence "I think it's too simplistic and would like it to be more complicated." but apparently when I did that before I was told I'm being a troll. Oh well.

[jvbrakel]

i build a tool that might be able to help you too. it shows you what you need for which recipe and allows you to test production setups with structures and recipes.

by looking at what is selling at what price and what the production costs are for making the product (recipe pricing) you can decide what is the best production setup for you

http://www.exchangeguild.com/potbs.php

[Linavin]

Eve's economy hasn't got crap on that kind of simplicity!

I must agree. And even the harvesting and production slot system in Pirates is more basic and streamlined then the EVE economy. The interesting part comes in exporting raw/refined materials and the flow of said industrial goods. We haven't even reached that level of development yet. Hell, a lot of players are still looking for the proper recipes to get specialized production up and running. Give the economy a month, then come back and make an assesment.

[Captain Lackey]

I'd actually like it to be a bit more complicated.

I think it's fairly overly-simplified. -.-;;

Me.

We need tin mines to make bronze in forges for bronze shot. WHY IS THE TIN GONE?! :D

[Anthony Pride]

Agreed, make the products a bit more complicated, and make it more personal so that people can se who's selling the stuff. Not realy an economy if you dont have brand names and such.

[Asmodeous]

Sellers should see who bought from them, buyers should not.

If they did the auctions wouldn't be blind.

Me.

[Captain Lackey]

Sellers should see who bought from them, buyers should not.

If they did the auctions wouldn't be blind.

Me.

Agreed. That said, does it really matter who bought it? It's already been bought and gone. I suppose you could keep track and see if you're having a bunch of Spanish after...wine or whatever, which would mean...nothing? That they aren't Euro trading?

I can't really think of being able to see who the buyer was as being important enough to be worth coding and QA testing.

[Asmodeous]

Agreed. That said, does it really matter who bought it? It's already been bought and gone. I suppose you could keep track and see if you're having a bunch of Spanish after...wine or whatever, which would mean...nothing? That they aren't Euro trading?

I can't really think of being able to see who the buyer was as being important enough to be worth coding and QA testing.

I could contact buyers and offer bulk rates and other such deals to guarantee constant purchasers.

Me.

[david31741]

yeah let's compare a just starting economy with a 4+ year old economy - get real!

on the other hand I love potbs economy - everyone can have a hand in it - and its about chosing what you deal in...not lottos for T2's and special moons ect...its great!

[ummax]

I'm not an economist of any kind and I figure it out. Heck I dont even keep spreadsheets or anything and I do pretty well. I have a calculator that I take out once and awhile and that's about it. Once I have figured out whatever it is i'm trying to figure out its done. I also like the blind system because it can be pretty fun messing with it if you get into it. Some of the price wars get insanely heated and are just as bad as any combat based PvP. The price wars would not be nearly as fun if you could see all the numbers..... that may not make sense to you but it does to me. In any event I dont find it that hard. I do have a mathematical mind though and perhaps that is why. You have to like to figure things out and solve problems and plan and scheme in order to have fun with it. Its not for everyone one but for me its the most fun part of the game. *covers the geek stamp across her forhead and runs*

[P. Pete]

PotBS econ is rather simple.

If you think its challenging, take a look at wurmonline.com where every single thing is crafted

I played wurm for some time and for example, to build a decent fort may take many thousands of stone bricks ...and you make every single one of them.
but before you can make a stone brick you need stone shards.
before you can get stone shards you need a pickaxe and to find a suitable mining site.
then everything also depends on your skill and the quality of the raw material which depends on the skill of the raw material producer and quality of his tools.

so...lets make some arrows ...

hmm I need an axe to cut the tree down
I need a carving knife or saw to make the logs into "timber"
I need a carving knife to make that into arrow shafts

now for arrow heads ...

we need some iron ore ...so spend several real hours mining rocks until you find an ore vein if you haven't already.
we need to smelt that iron ore...[want me to list the steps required to make a forge, the building to house it and the tools needed .etc?]
great we now have iron lumps, keep them hot in the forge else you can't work them...[did I mention you need to fuel the fire or it will go out? that requires log, peat, coal, tar .etc]
lets make arrow heads ...oh wait we need to make an anvil ...and hammer

now afix your arrow heads to the arrow shafts ...great but we're not done.
now you need to spend time with a file, hammer and pelt "improving" the arrow to the point where its good quality so it flies straight and does good damage.

now do that to 300 arrows because you ca fire one every 2-3 seconds and while you can pick them up later, if you can find them, your not going to stop to do so while fighting, since the server is 100% pvp all the time and there is about 12037612937 beasts which can also kill you.

btw my list there is really simplified because every single thing other then your really basic newb tools has to be player made.

you newb tools have really bad quality and thus don't make very good items, though you can eventually make better quality items then the tools you have due to your skill going up.

also did I mention that everything wears out ?
as it wears out it looses quality.

so first you must repair the item and then you can improve it again to bring it "back to new".

btw don't forget that all the while you must eat and drink, so you probably want to make some sort of clay flask or water skin to carry drink around in and you'll want some tools to cook with because your health does no improve if you are starving and you'll eventually be almost unable to move if you don't drink because you are thirsty.

I'm barely scratching the surface but you get the idea.

potbs is really rather simple.

[AJRimmsey]

simple fact is the economy relies on numbers of players.

empty or very low user count means the economy will never be any use.





then again..too many users all with warehouses and building stuff means everyone selling and nobody buying end products...and it`ll grind to a halt.

but very daring of FLS to leave it to the player to form the economy..vive la difference

its working to a degree on Bonny,as many experiment and test prod lines,the AH is slowly coming to life.
just need the launch day and the influx of customer,i have my ships issue condom line ready and waiting,dont want all those newbs catching the pox in jennys bay.