What type of ship for PvP?

[SolarGuy]

I'm assuming that since people won't want to lose their main ship they'll be using their backups for PvP? I was really looking forward to PvP and I hope the cost of losing your ship doesn't make it too expensive for most people.

[Caldes]

If you're in a well run society, chances are you won't be hurting for ships too badly. If you're a Pirate, chances are you'll be able to find the NPC with the ship you want (or something as suitable).

I imagine open seas ad-hoc PvP will be dominated by ships with good handling statistics more so than armor and guns. Privvies and Rats will shine in these situations. NOs will be at a disadvantage unless they have numbers or some well executed organisation. Rats and Privvies have the skill sets to excel in 1 vs 1 and running away, and thus at an inherent advantage in the randomness of Ad-Hoc PvP.

However, turn to port battles, were running is not an option unless you don't mind losing the port, and were you have time to organise in battle, NOs will start to shine and the Big Ships will become seriously effective.

[SolarGuy]

As you saying that port contention battles will feature multiple ships of the line being sunk? The humanity!!!

[Rook]

I'm assuming that since people won't want to lose their main ship they'll be using their backups for PvP? I was really looking forward to PvP and I hope the cost of losing your ship doesn't make it too expensive for most people.

Fall back ships will not fair well in PvP, there is a distinct disadvantage when faced with a full version of the same ship. In most cases, people will likely PvP in whatever ship they have at the time. Later on, when things even out and people to start to keep multiple ships and they figure out what ships/play style they favor, they will have one vessel set up for that purpose, but that is based on taste and preference. If you like to shark around, you’ll be in a stealthed out Cutter, if you prefer to board, the Xebec is a good choice. It all comes down to availability and taste.

As for durability vs. cost. PvP at your own risk. If you flag yourself or sail into the red circle. You have to accept the consequences that come with the risk. Durabilty can be refilled and money comes easy enough to re-outfit.


I imagine open seas ad-hoc PvP will be dominated by ships with good handling statistics more so than armor and guns. Privvies and Rats will shine in these situations. NOs will be at a disadvantage unless they have numbers or some well executed organisation. Rats and Privvies have the skill sets to excel in 1 vs 1 and running away, and thus at an inherent advantage in the randomness of Ad-Hoc PvP.

However, turn to port battles, were running is not an option unless you don't mind losing the port, and were you have time to organise in battle, NOs will start to shine and the Big Ships will become seriously effective.

The only thing I don’t agree with is that you are assuming that all NOs are going to sail around in SoLs all day long. That won’t happen and only the foolish will try. NOs no less dangerous in Ad-hoc then any other, especially when in range of our disabling abilities. I assure you, a skilled officer in a MC Corsair is just as deadly and a pirate. As for 25. vs. 25 battles, not everyone will have SoLs, actually, for a long time to come, pot battles will be won and lost with Frigates and Corvettes. SoL are only as effective as the support the fleet can provide. Otherwise, its just a slow moving well armored target.

[JoeCold]

If you're in a well run society, chances are you won't be hurting for ships too badly. If you're a Pirate, chances are you'll be able to find the NPC with the ship you want (or something as suitable).

I imagine open seas ad-hoc PvP will be dominated by ships with good handling statistics more so than armor and guns. Privvies and Rats will shine in these situations. NOs will be at a disadvantage unless they have numbers or some well executed organisation. Rats and Privvies have the skill sets to excel in 1 vs 1 and running away, and thus at an inherent advantage in the randomness of Ad-Hoc PvP.

However, turn to port battles, were running is not an option unless you don't mind losing the port, and were you have time to organise in battle, NOs will start to shine and the Big Ships will become seriously effective.


If this turns out to be true, that would not only be excellent game balance, but accurate realism. I hope you prove correct. It would be awesome!

[Caldes]

The only thing I don’t agree with is that you are assuming that all NOs are going to sail around in SoLs all day long. That won’t happen and only the foolish will try. NOs no less dangerous in Ad-hoc then any other, especially when in range of our disabling abilities. I assure you, a skilled officer in a MC Corsair is just as deadly and a pirate. As for 25. vs. 25 battles, not everyone will have SoLs, actually, for a long time to come, pot battles will be won and lost with Frigates and Corvettes. SoL are only as effective as the support the fleet can provide. Otherwise, its just a slow moving well armored target.

Nyet. I do not assume NOs will be sailing in SOLs all the time. I fully plan on keeping my Lancer as long as possible (and would even get more if/when I lose it), and plan on having a solid Frigate in addition to an SOL.

That said, I'm gearing my skillset to take full advantage of what SOLs do best, which doesn't include speed and maneuverability, two things that are important in AD-Hoc PvP. Even in my Lancer, my speed and maneuverability won't match a Privvie or rat.

In the random toss in Spawns that are currently Ad-Hoc, Privvies and rats have the inherent advantage thanks to their inherent speed and maneuverability advantages. NOs need coordination to use their skillsets more effectively, and sometimes you don't have the time in Ad-Hoc to do that. I'm not saying that NOs suck, I'm saying that Privvies/Rats have advantages that play better towards Ad-Hoc.

[melbach1]

I envision the perfect PvP ship as having the speed and maneuverability of the MC Bermuda, the crew capacity of an Arcadia Xebec and the firepower of a Prince 1st Rate. Sadly Aegis Cruiser designs were not allowed into the game so it's every man for himself.

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Sleek Packetboat.

Its cheap, effective, and can almost always run away. Short of a lancer in the right hands, there is little you need to fear -- you can outrun or outfight virtually anything. Initially, your primary prey should be defenseless noobs in fallbacks, sloops, cutters, and flutes. As you grow more skilled and bold, you can move into taking on more deadly ships, such as dromendary, postilleon, and locusts. When you have truly arrived, you can even threaten large frigates.

Its a great ship to learn without taking major losses, and in the hands of a vet can be both extremely profitable, very fun, and intensely deadly.

[Geograd]

Sleek Packetboat.

Its cheap, effective, and can almost always run away. Short of a lancer in the right hands, there is little you need to fear -- you can outrun or outfight virtually anything. Initially, your primary prey should be defenseless noobs in fallbacks, sloops, cutters, and flutes. As you grow more skilled and bold, you can move into taking on more deadly ships, such as dromendary, postilleon, and locusts. When you have truly arrived, you can even threaten large frigates.

Its a great ship to learn without taking major losses, and in the hands of a vet can be both extremely profitable, very fun, and intensely deadly.

Unfortunately I honestly think this boat is overly powerful at least while we remain at lvl 21 cap. The reason I say this is out of experience. I was in my Van Hoorn with upgraded speed and turn rating and ran across a privateer sleek packetboat (I believe that was the make of the packetboat) also lvl 21. He was able to stay in front of me the entire time while we were going downwind and I'm not some noob PvPer (though I won't claim to be a master by any means). He pecked away at my sails and I tried to peck away at his, but he got 2 shots off for my every 1. He eventually boarded me and won. So I was like "ok, I'll take out my faster ship" and I took out my sleek locust corvette, speed and turn rate updated (lvl 20 ship, where his is a lvl 19). I found him again, this fight was more even in a sense that I was able to get infront of him this time, but he was still able to turn faster and move faster than me at almost all times, even with 70% sails. This seems quite unbalanced. He was probably a better PvPer than me yes, but when I attack him with two different ships and it's almost the same outcome each time, there is something wrong. I adapted and learned to get infront of him and draw him to me the second time and I was the one shooting twice for his every once, but he still managed to actually sink my boat this time. I'm not angry or upset, just relaying a real life experience against this boat and to me it seems too powerful for it's level.

[karkh]

Sorry Geo but that reads as "I lost, nerf!"

[Stormbad]

Mmmm, Lancer. But realize this is a NO only ship so Privateers, Freetraders and Pirates must use something equivalent, like the Sleek Packetboat or Sleek Locust or Sleek Xebec. Lots of newcomers don't understand the Xebec so Locust or Packetboat for them. DPS on the Packetboat, Locust and Xebec kills the Lancer... but Lancer has higher accuracy and defense and range. Play to its strengths.

Only downside is that as a NO, we won't be able to catch or run away from a Priv/FT/Pirate in a Sleek.

[SolarGuy]

If a society starts to dominate the map with their groups of SoL's though, they may become unstoppable because no one else will want to lose their SoLs! The cost of building and losing an SoL may've been intended to give everyone else a fighting chance but it may prove to have just the opposite effect. I can't think of any worse scenerio than spending all that effort into obtaining an SoL without being able to use it out of fear of losing it. I really think you should be able to deem marks of victory to refill durability. That would be the best solution.

[Garbad_the_Weak]

If a society starts to dominate the map with their groups of SoL's though, they may become unstoppable because no one else will want to lose their SoLs! The cost of building and losing an SoL may've been intended to give everyone else a fighting chance but it may prove to have just the opposite effect. I can't think of any worse scenerio than spending all that effort into obtaining an SoL without being able to use it out of fear of losing it. I really think you should be able to deem marks of victory to refill durability. That would be the best solution.I think he is having pre happy fun beta flashbacks :rolleyes:

[Geograd]

Sorry Geo but that reads as "I lost, nerf!"

That's cause you don't read too well ;)

[SolarGuy]

I didn't play the Beta but I love the game so far and my greatest concern is not being effective in PvP because it's too expensive.

[bpdlr]

Sleek Packetboat.

Its cheap, effective, and can almost always run away. Short of a lancer in the right hands...<snip>

So basically, you're saying a Lancer is the best ship. And I'd agree.

[Garbad_the_Weak]

So basically, you're saying a Lancer is the best ship. And I'd agree.As a rat, possibly. In the hands of a smart rat, I believe a lancer is the most deadly small ship in the game. As a navy, it has its own set of strengths and weaknesses. Still one of the very best regardless, but not everyone is navy and not everyone prefers that style. The packet is solid for all classes.

[bpdlr]

In the hands of a smart rat, I believe a lancer is the most deadly small ship in the game.

Ah, Garbad, was that a veiled compliment? :p

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Ah, Garbad, was that a veiled compliment? :pYes, the superior skillset of the rat combined with the superior stats of the lancer makes for a scary 1v1 ship. There are very, very few 1v1 fights I fear, but a skilled rat in a lancer is one that will make me think twice in almost any ship.

I've posted a couple of times begging for a nerf of the lancer, as it was easy to dominate even SOLs and rat Poms in happy fun.

[Daikon]

Why is the skillset of the pirate deemed superior to the skillset of the naval officer?

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Why is the skillset of the pirate deemed superior to the skillset of the naval officer?Better speed, agility, dps, split repairs, and debuffs. Navy is better in range and defense (defense is less important in small ships).

[Quilliam]

For PvP I lilke a ship that is versitale.

Any suggestions on one that has decent speed, firepower and armour.

I was looking at the specs on the Arcadi Xebec and it looks like if you outfited for speed it could be an interesting ship... (can pirates steal this?)

Anyways I'd love suggestions on verstiale ships all the way up.

[bpdlr]

For PvP I lilke a ship that is versitale.

Any suggestions on one that has decent speed, firepower and armour.

I was looking at the specs on the Arcadi Xebec and it looks like if you outfited for speed it could be an interesting ship... (can pirates steal this?)

Anyways I'd love suggestions on versatile ships all the way up.

I'm not sure you really want to sail in a Jack of all Trades ship. You would be master of no battles.

Work out your play style and cater to it. Go for a fast ship if you want to solo, a tackling ship if you want to lead the chase, or a DPS machine if you want to be the cavalry. There are a number of ships that can do a bit of everything, but only a few good ships for each playstyle.

As a pirate, I'd go for Bermuda MC (for upwind tackling), Hermes Sleek (for downwind) or Posti (for tanking/DPS). Some people also like the Corsair Sleek, though I never understood why. If you can get a Lancer, it's like the Bermuda but on steroids.

As you get higher levels you'll learn which other ships are good. Yes, Arcadia is good for some jobs, but the Cerb MC is most people's favourite for tackling, and if you wanted to tank you'd go for a Stralsund MC at that level. The Defiant Sleek is also a very good ship at its level.

Personally, I sailed my captured Lancer and a Bermuda MC til end of Open Beta and had some wonderful times. Taking down an SOL in a sloop is a very satisfying experience :)

[melbach1]

So much wind and so little sailing.

For solo PvP or tackling in groups there are 3 types of ships that can excel. MC Bermudas and sleek or MC variants of Corsairs or Hemes Packets. A group using all 3 can run down anything no matter whether they run up, down or across the wind. The reason so many have done well with Xebecs is regardless of outfitting they will not be run down when things go bad or they are ganked unless caught by another up wind ship. Likewise Bermudas/Lancers or other 90 degree ships have an advantage over 135 type ships. Packets just hit the pedal and unless they are against a Triton with much better outfitting they are good to go and pirate skills and early acceleration will generally make up the difference. Besides if you have no outfitting why are you doing solo PvP?

The difference between the sleek and MC variants on the Xebecs and Packets means trading some speed for a jump from 6 to 8 lb guns. So a little more distance and damage per broadside. However the real difference is in the different ways you make subtle changes in outfitting to turn the same ship from a 1 on 1 PvPer to a tackler in group PvP action. There are times when pure speed and firing distance are useful and others where a little more maneuverability and rate of fire or accuracy will turn the tide. I keep two small fast ships set up with small changes in outfitting to suit my purpose for the evening.

As I say you can sail safely and effectively in any of the 3 and you will find people who champion them all. Try one of each and see, if you're pirate, if not then look out because I may be gaining on you and you can't outrun me...trust me on this.

[Garbad_the_Weak]

So much wind and so little sailing.

For solo PvP or tackling in groups there are 3 types of ships that can excel. MC Bermudas and sleek or MC variants of Corsairs or Hemes Packets. A group using all 3 can run down anything no matter whether they run up, down or across the wind. The reason so many have done well with Xebecs is regardless of outfitting they will not be run down when things go bad or they are ganked unless caught by another up wind ship. Likewise Bermudas/Lancers or other 90 degree ships have an advantage over 135 type ships. Packets just hit the pedal and unless they are against a Triton with much better outfitting they are good to go and pirate skills and early acceleration will generally make up the difference. Besides if you have no outfitting why are you doing solo PvP?

The difference between the sleek and MC variants on the Xebecs and Packets means trading some speed for a jump from 6 to 8 lb guns. So a little more distance and damage per broadside. However the real difference is in the different ways you make subtle changes in outfitting to turn the same ship from a 1 on 1 PvPer to a tackler in group PvP action. There are times when pure speed and firing distance are useful and others where a little more maneuverability and rate of fire or accuracy will turn the tide. I keep two small fast ships set up with small changes in outfitting to suit my purpose for the evening.

As I say you can sail safely and effectively in any of the 3 and you will find people who champion them all. Try one of each and see, if you're pirate, if not then look out because I may be gaining on you and you can't outrun me...trust me on this.Decent overall, but you need to include some about catharp/stud/btw2/tu. You are only telling part of the story until you do.

[melbach1]

Decent overall, but you need to include some about catharp/stud/btw2/tu. You are only telling part of the story until you do.

I agree but my intent was merely to answer the question about the ships. My equipment configurations are matters of national security and nothing else will be said save to my society members...but I can show them in close action should we meet on the OS.

[bpdlr]

I agree but my intent was merely to answer the question about the ships. My equipment configurations are matters of national security and nothing else will be said save to my society members...but I can show them in close action should we meet on the OS.

Yeah, we could tell you Garbad, but then we'd have to kill you :p

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Yeah, we could tell you Garbad, but then we'd have to kill you :pYes, no doubt its a great secret, and would be extremely difficult to even guess. But I will try:

EDIT: What was I thinking, sharing tips with the enemy O_O

OH NOES! DA SECRETS OUT!!!~

[Quilliam]

Seems to me like if you are going for a small fast ship for solo the sleek is a better choice than MC.



Now a question...

Whats to stop one of the large ships from loading up on Antipersonel fodder when you go in for the board on a small fast ship?

I think if someone knew what they were doing in a larger ship with good armor and guns they could take out a small fast ship.

Or is that what you are saying, the small fast ship can run away if someone knows what they are doing which makes them a better ship for solo PvP?

[bpdlr]

Whats to stop one of the large ships from loading up on Antipersonel fodder when you go in for the board on a small fast ship?

Nothing. But by that stage, he should be a canoe, and it should be a matter of getting on his stern/bow, and raking his decks until you have an advantage. But how you do that properly is, again, a matter of National Security :p