The PVP Join Mechanics are Terrible

[Wicked]

I have to say after playing a bit of PVP, I am extremely unimpressed. My PVP experience is as follows:

- Friend gets jumps by two pirates, I try to help, am locked out by 60 seconds that I did not know about at the time.
- I get jumped by three pirates, friend tries to join, gets bugged out, and then it locks, and the result should be incredibly obvious.

The 60 seconds join mechanic is quite simply broken, for a few reasons:
- Firstly, the battles in this game can last a long time. Giving a 5% window to join a battle in progress is quite simply ridiculous.
- Secondly, it entirely disabuses you of any notion of reinforcements, even from someone just inside the port. 60 seconds is a mere hearbeat.
-Thirdly, and part of the above, once a 3v1 is locked in, your options tend to be limited to running away (not especially exciting), or getting your masts disintegrated, and then facing a 6 wave vs. 1 wave boarding combat, which is also not exciting.

As my MMO PVP experience goes, I have to say by far the most fun I ever had was in World of Warcraft world PVP. You had a constantly evolving battlefield as fights spanned across whole zones and new combatants entered all the time. My friend, on his epic mount, once flew two zones over to aid me in a PVP.

Or, another time, when we were being corpse camped hard by a bunch of higher level people, we summoned in nearly our entire guild and actually took over Gadgetzan temporarily (not one Horde or NPC was left alive). Now, while I'm not advocating summoning, someone being able to row their boat out to your battle should be able to join.

I feel very disillusioned from a game I otherwise enjoy a lot. My suggested fix is making flares work the same in PVP and PVE.

tl;dr: Make PVP battles joinable at any point with flares. Each flare use gives 60 seconds of join time. Or just make them joinable period.

[Kamui]

If memory serves, flares are for PvP. Personaly, I see nothing wrong with the minute timer; it makes people sail closer to each other. Otherwise, you may have people sailing from halfway around the world to jump into a fight. Which may be great if you're the one who does the attacking and is losing, but isn't so great if you're the victim and you almost beat the guy when 5 of his friends spawn in and blow you to splinters.

[PandaRuns]

Flares aren't for PvP, it says so in the description it's for PvE. Yeah, it's basically 60 seconds is plenty long...just sail close to each other...I think a lot of people are doing 15-20 miles or something.

[FryaDuck]

No, simply because it can be abused.


It's a policy of my society now that in every Adhoc PvP battle we use the flare, everyone in the battle. Because too often we see noobs using it.....

[beltpouch]

The Open Sea is an abstraction of Caribbean travel. In reality if you are caught in a sea battle and you are out at sea in the Caribbean, then only ships that are VERY close to you will be able to aid you in said battle. You cannot get on your cell phone and call for reinforcements from 100 miles away. That just isn't realistic.

That said in the end it's is a balancing mechanic. When you are about to enter a battle you have a certain situational awareness about what you are about to get into. If people can just willy nilly call in reinforcements from all corners of the globe then your situational awareness of what you are getting into is completely pointless.

It all boils down to if you are sailing as a group you just need to stick close together. That's kinda the whole point in my most humble of opinions.

[Cik]

Friend gets jumps by two pirates, I try to help, am locked out by 60 seconds that I did not know about at the time.

Working as intended from a development stand-point, though hotly contested and supported by consumer-base for a slightly greater entrance time window during beta.

I get jumped by three pirates, friend tries to join, gets bugged out, and then it locks, and the result should be incredibly obvious.

Doubtful that friend gets bugged out since its working as dysfunctionally intended (see above).

The 60 seconds join mechanic is quite simply broken, for a few reasons:
- Firstly, the battles in this game can last a long time. Giving a 5% window to join a battle in progress is quite simply ridiculous.

Sure. My group was in one that lasted near 45 minutes the other night.

Secondly, it entirely disabuses you of any notion of reinforcements, even from someone just inside the port. 60 seconds is a mere hearbeat.

Sure. The game was ratcheted back to a Pve-centric game with arena-style PvP, though even that style of PvP is out of reach for probably the mass make-up of mmo players; the casual 1-2 hours per day player. With the amount of time it takes to search out, and then get engaged in a PvP experience, it may not seem reasonable for a game that is supposedly player-influenced. The PvP is probably not small group or party influential for many players, but is a game-play influential environment for a large more time-committed guild; there’s a fundamental difference.

Thirdly, and part of the above, once a 3v1 is locked in, your options tend to be limited to running away (not especially exciting), or getting your masts disintegrated, and then facing a 6 wave vs. 1 wave boarding combat, which is also not exciting.

Yes, run away. I think that the flip-side is that there should not be an immediate lock on a player-driven encounter that when there is 1v1 that a second or third should be prevented from joining for a replayable experience and support; hence the 60-second timer. Not exciting or a fun and replayable experience that many will look forward to I think. But you’ve gotta ask, how much time and number of players should it be as the time/players now is 60 seconds for 6 players to enter. AND you can turn your PvP flag off in any port and navigate around any PvP hotspot. I think you should be able to turn your flag ‘on’ in any port, but only off an hour after you’ve turned it on, and that turning ‘off’ being done in only your nations ports. The current PvP disengagement is extremely, extremely risk-free and game-play disenfranchising in a game that is supposed to be more player influenced with risk and rewards to match, though it is an extremely PvE centric game which may fall short on meaningful player-influenced game-play and associated risk/rewards.

As my MMO PVP experience goes, I have to say by far the most fun I ever had was in World of Warcraft world PVP. You had a constantly evolving battlefield as fights spanned across whole zones and new combatants entered all the time. My friend, on his epic mount, once flew two zones over to aid me in a PVP.

You won’t see evolving port battles or player-influenced game-play changes in PotBS since flipping a port is meaningless with only a measly 72-hour ownership time that contributes nothing to the aforementioned mass casual player-base. Not to mention that flipping a port is a huge time-sink that involved countless hours of game-play time for a fraction of the player-base. You wont see more open player-influence, sadly I think, since it disrupts others experience, but a disruption to your experience is okay, maintaining its’ mundaneness.

I feel very disillusioned from a game I otherwise enjoy a lot. My suggested fix is making flares work the same in PVP and PVE. Make PVP battles joinable at any point with flares. Each flare use gives 60 seconds of join time. Or just make them joinable period.

Wont happen though greater player inclusion has been asked for repeatedly. Wont because you’ll come back to the board and post something dumb like “I Hate PvP” in a game that is falsely promoted as, well, a balanced PvE/PvP experience. :P

So overall, I’m afraid that the silence by the devs on your interests which were watered down by them during beta may be deafening. It seems to me that the game’s angle is to offer non-influential game-play PvP in a veiled attempt to market it as mattering to game-play when in fact is nothing more than arena PvP where the initial number of friends entering the arena makes the difference, not the battle itself or its influence on the world or port.

[Sykomyke421]

You won’t see evolving port battles or player-influenced game-play changes in PotBS since flipping a port is meaningless with only a measly 72-hour ownership time that contributes nothing to the aforementioned mass casual player-base. Not to mention that flipping a port is a huge time-sink that involved countless hours of game-play time for a fraction of the player-base. You wont see more open player-influence, sadly I think, since it disrupts others experience, but a disruption to your experience is okay, maintaining its’ mundaneness.


I think you are misinformed. I was under the impression that ONLY pirates had the ports flipped temporariliy for 36 hours. Nationals get them permanently, or until they are flipped back by a rival nation.


So overall, I’m afraid that the silence by the devs on your interests which were watered down by them during beta may be deafening. It seems to me that the game’s angle is to offer non-influential game-play PvP in a veiled attempt to market it as mattering to game-play when in fact is nothing more than arena PvP where the initial number of friends entering the arena makes the difference, not the battle itself or its influence on the world or port.

With the current system set up for lottery style drawings to those who participated in the contention zones I don't see how this DOESN'T cater to the casual...I mean sure most contention will probably be generated by mass zerg pvp societies. But that doesn't mean you can't sail in there and get a chance to get in. The only real problem is being online when the invites go out.

[Gex122]

You won’t see evolving port battles or player-influenced game-play changes in PotBS since flipping a port is meaningless with only a measly 72-hour ownership time that contributes nothing to the aforementioned mass casual player-base.

This is only when Pirates flip ports. When a nation flips a port its thier until constested and won by someone else.

[keline]

This is only when Pirates flip ports. When a nation flips a port its thier until constested and won by someone else.

Is this also true for pirate ports?

[good_times]

Is this also true for pirate ports?

Pirate ports are 'suppressed' for 3 days, then they go back to pirate.
If the pirates flip a port it is 'raided' and also reverts back after 3 days.

If nationals flip a port they possess it till someone takes it from them or a server victory is declared which causes all ports to be reverted back to their original holders.

[Cik]

This is only when Pirates flip ports. When a nation flips a port its thier until constested and won by someone else.

Yay! Ehhhmmm...I mean...yea...should have mentioned that I was referring to about 1/4 to 1/3 of the potential game-play element which happens to impact an entire nation (pirate nation in a defining sense). Therefore the game is grossly imbalanced as to my point. Just call the game "Nations who manhandle pirates (whom really don't matter in-game) that are there for your window-dressing pleasure of the burning sea." :)

[Gex122]

Yay! Ehhhmmm...I mean...yea...should have mentioned that I was referring to about 1/4 to 1/3 of the potential game-play element which happens to impact an entire nation (pirate nation in a defining sense). Therefore the game is grossly imbalanced as to my point. Just call the game "Nations who manhandle pirates (whom really don't matter in-game) that are there for your window-dressing pleasure of the burning sea." :)

Valid point however Pirates are pirates. They are not a nation. They pillage and plunder for personal wealth and reconigition (sp?). They not really suppose to care about each other anyways.

Pirates are suppose to be a nusance to the Nations battling for control of the carribean. There are a lot of pirates playing because they want to use as many ships as possible (I must say having access to almost all the ships ingame would be fun but I'm happy that I'm playing an underdog nation in this game).


- Francis Duquet (Blackbeard)

[Spinnaker Sam]

Pirates may not be a nation, but players are all in the same brotherhood under the leadership of Captain Kidd. Thus, you have certain rules and obligations to that Brethren order. Like it or not, Player pirates are all in the same gang of cutthroats.

[McClellan]

I would imagine that people who opt to play as a pirate are simmilar to pirates in EvE (though EVE takes all that to a way higher level) - in EVE you won't see many "pirate nations", as in trying to control 0.0 systems or buidling an empire and such. Like PotBS pirates, most of them are interested in hunting down fat merchants, getting their kick out of ad-hoc PvP, occasional "pot of gold" in the hold of a careless trader and of course, offended screaming of the wronged.

As for pirate ports, think of them as free towns or towns under the formal rule of an Old World power but ridden with crime, corruption and like. As such, Nationals can sail in with their navies and try to supress the crime factor. But, as it often is with such places, you can't drive the stink out of a turd no matter how much you try to perfume it.

So that's what pirate ports are. Excretions of civilization. You can stomp on them but at the end of the day you will only ruin your boots.

[Broom]

Flares aren't for PvP, it says so in the description it's for PvE. Yeah, it's basically 60 seconds is plenty long...just sail close to each other...I think a lot of people are doing 15-20 miles or something.

Uhm, I think they mean the 'call for help' flares, and no, nothing in the description of this option says it only works in PVE. Whether the text is wrong or the flares aren't working as intended, I can't say, but the description reads:

"Call for help

Fires a signal flare, allowing your allies to enter your battle

Requirements: you must be in an Open Sea combat."

There are pros and cons to having this work in PVP. Pro is that it would diminish the effect of gank squads, who manage to split your group. Con is that it would enable gank squads to join the party and descend upon a solo fighter or small group.


Linna

[Danicia]

Uhm, I think they mean the 'call for help' flares, and no, nothing in the description of this option says it only works in PVE. Whether the text is wrong or the flares aren't working as intended, I can't say, but the description reads:

"Call for help

Fires a signal flare, allowing your allies to enter your battle

Requirements: you must be in an Open Sea combat."

There are pros and cons to having this work in PVP. Pro is that it would diminish the effect of gank squads, who manage to split your group. Con is that it would enable gank squads to join the party and descend upon a solo fighter or small group.


Linna

Flares do not work in PVP.

[Wicked]

Doubtful that friend gets bugged out since its working as dysfunctionally intended (see above).

No, the server was rubber banding all around. He furiously clicked on the open battle for 30 seconds before it closed. Just chose not to work.

I do agree it would be slightly unrealistic if someone sailed from 100 miles away and joined the battle, but it'd be easier to PVP with my friends, which is by far and away the reason I play MMORPGs (though Burning Sea crafting is pretty fun).

I can see the case for both sides, but as I've seen the alternative implemented well in many other games, I think it would be worth at least testing on the Testbed, in my humble opinion.

[Cik]

No, the server was rubber banding all around. He furiously clicked on the open battle for 30 seconds before it closed.

That I buy and believe, really. Server stability has, for me, gone in the crapper the last couple of nights though not tonight...around 5-8pm for a couple hours when i was in the Guanica vicinity.

[Cik]

I do agree it would be slightly unrealistic if someone sailed from 100 miles away and joined the battle, but it'd be easier to PVP with my friends

And add to that the positive group / community cohesion elements of game-play rather than isolating. Having said that, even at 50 miles out with a cross or head-wind, good luck making it into an instance.

[CapnMilson]

allowing people to continually join would ruin the pvp experience for solo/small grps. you will forever be ganked by guilds who have greater numbers. they'll pile 6 into every pvp encounter

that would further deter casuals who are solo/small grp pvping. plus eliminate any strategy for drawing out/splitting bigger grps in pvp zones

[Lianas]

The idea that a game would allow, as part of its game mechanics, a member of a group to be locked out, for well over 20mins in some cases, from participation with the rest of his group mates is just unreal. What other MMO does this.

I understand those that say group cohesion while in OS is part of the Game play and strategy of PvP, BUT with the layout of OS, there are to many outside factors that get in the way. As those in Beta will tell you, the Lag around a port during Contention can be really bad. It can make it near to imposable to find and join your teammates before the lockout from the fight.

I fear that as the game goes live and many Mainstream mmo players start getting locked out of there Group for long periods of time, there will be a much larger push to change this Game Mechanic.

What i don't understand is how hard is it to just make Group PvP be 6 on 6?? once a member of the team is pulled into Combat the battle is not Locked until BOTH sides have 6 players in the Battle. This gives all the members of a 6 man team the time to come to there teammates aid, and it allows those team with less then 6 players the chance to have some solo players come to there aid until there are 6 players on both sides.

If "Gank Squads" are suppose to be ok in THIS game, with the Combat lockout timers, i will have to wonder how this game will do once it goes live.

This is not like Gank Squads in other MMOs where anyone can come to the aid of someone getting ganked at anytime.

But if a team of 6 ganking a solo player, with NO Chance of getting help, is "Working as Intended" I will be looking forward to seeing how this will go down once we go live.


Jade De la Cruz
Captain of La Silvana

[PandaRuns]

No where on the open sea or anything referring to it says that all fights should be fair. It's not going to happen. Only time that fights are fair numbers wise, are in Port Battles.

I could've sworn the flare mentioneds omething about it being PvE only. At least that's what I recall from beta. It could've also said that during PvP...which I've never paid attention to as I knew it wouldn't work.

There's simple solutions to this you could do in game. But I know how hard it is to adapt to a game or change the "easy-mode" mentality. I know that when those who gank people do it they love it, the second it happens to them they QQ. I'll gank people, and I won't even feel bad about it. I know if I see an even group number I'd like to get the even matchup as I'm competitive at heart and love a great match, even if it yields no reward.

[Sykomyke421]

Lianas the lockout is there for the sole purpos of preventing a 1v1 fighting in TURNING into gank squads of 6v1.

[bpdlr]

The idea that a game would allow, as part of its game mechanics, a member of a group to be locked out, for well over 20mins in some cases, from participation with the rest of his group mates is just unreal. What other MMO does this.

Lemme just stop you there.... This isn't WOW, or EQ, or any other game. There aren't any other MMOs that are based on open sea combat. This game tries to be historically realistic wherever possible, and it's entirely possible that if you were split from the rest of your squadron, you'd either be attacked or find they had been attacked.

If you think just because you are in a group you have the "right" to play with your groupmates, no matter how badly you adhere to the basic rules of gameplay, you are playing the wrong game.

[Cik]

allowing people to continually join would ruin the pvp experience for solo/small grps. you will forever be ganked by guilds who have greater numbers. they'll pile 6 into every pvp encounter

that would further deter casuals who are solo/small grp pvping. plus eliminate any strategy for drawing out/splitting bigger grps in pvp zones

Dont get your panties in an uproar :) I hope no one is saying continuous. However, the game already deters solo/small groups by virtue of a very very brief join time, thereby disabling solo/small group players from comfortably enabling their PvP flag.

And you are absolutely wrong if you think for a moment that a PvP group will be split-up in a PvP zone; it may happen once in a blue moon due to lack of experience about staying in a pack, but hardly often at all.

[Cik]

The idea that a game would allow, as part of its game mechanics, a member of a group to be locked out, for well over 20mins in some cases, from participation with the rest of his group mates is just unreal. What other MMO does this.

Its not about being locked out for 20 minutes, but about giving a reasonable chance, though a short one, for your team to get into battle.

I understand those that say group cohesion while in OS is part of the Game play and strategy of PvP, BUT with the layout of OS, there are to many outside factors that get in the way. As those in Beta will tell you, the Lag around a port during Contention can be really bad. It can make it near to imposable to find and join your teammates before the lockout from the fight.

Yes. From what I gathered, most in beta agreed, but it got lost in translation with the Devs I think. The resultant loss will be the more casual player-base which usually makes up a great percentage of mmo’s who are normally willing to take the risk associated with PvP, but not if the mechanics are preventative from joining to support their mates. No one asked for rampant and continuous join ability by any means, but the PotBS game-play does not favor what I think is the mainstream mmo player; balanced & transitional PvE & PvP.

However, there should not not not be open joining throughout a battle.

I fear that as the game goes live and many Mainstream mmo players start getting locked out of there Group for long periods of time, there will be a much larger push to change this Game Mechanic.

The push occurred in beta but didn’t happen. See above.

What i don't understand is how hard is it to just make Group PvP be 6 on 6?? once a member of the team is pulled into Combat the battle is not Locked until BOTH sides have 6 players in the Battle. This gives all the members of a 6 man team the time to come to there teammates aid, and it allows those team with less then 6 players the chance to have some solo players come to there aid until there are 6 players on both sides.

No. For the same reason we don’t want to make it statically 1v1. We are to be teleported to another world, a virtual world, where there is dynamic uncertainty, chance, risk, reward and replayability. Forced static encounters is no different than playing a single-player game with the arena option to play against players online, briefly. PotBS is too close to that as it is.

You already have time to enter an encounter, and I agree that game-play, game-environment and stability issues prevents this from happening as fluidly as many would want. But this game, though extremely out-of-balance toward PvE, will not reduce itself to so severely getting rid of the dynamic of PvP – it’s dumbed down enough as it is. Turn your PvP flag off and have another ship in an alternate port that you can magically teleport to so you can be safe with the existing mechanics.

If "Gank Squads" are suppose to be ok in THIS game, with the Combat lockout timers, i will have to wonder how this game will do once it goes live. This is not like Gank Squads in other MMOs where anyone can come to the aid of someone getting ganked at anytime.

But if a team of 6 ganking a solo player, with NO Chance of getting help, is "Working as Intended" I will be looking forward to seeing how this will go down once we go live.

Jade De la Cruz
Captain of La Silvana

Now your getting too wordy. Every group is a gank squad. Your either looking to jump another npc or player. The lock-out timer serves a purpose. You first say you want some slight leniency on the timer mechanism and then you say you want forced even encounters, now back to the timer.

You got jumped because you had YOUR flag on; period. If your not willing to accept the reasonable battle tactics of another group that gives them the upper hand when you have every option to not get pulled into PvP by turning your flag off, then this game isn’t for you. You’re frustrated firstly because you’re not experienced with the game’s mechanics and suffered the consequences. I agree that there can be some slight improvements to the PvP mechanics, but you ARE in control.

So, YOU take the risk by turning on YOUR PvP flag but you don’t want to accept the consequences. That’s lame. You and folks like to don’t want to lose in a game but want the games mechanics to favorably bend to your will regardless of the circumstances, again, lame.

Frankly, as a side note to the PvP mechanics, you SHOULD be able to turn on your PvP flag in any port, imho, but you should ONLY be able to turn it off in a port of your nation.

[EMTsNightmare]

Alright quick question(s) since I haven't done any PVP or grouping in a while and keep hearing they have made some changes to the way joining the PVP battle goes.

I get that the position the attacker is to the person being attacked will effect who is upwind. But if the attacker gets closer to the person he is attacking on the OS does that mean he will spawn closer to the other ship or stay at the 700 yard range (which is what happens in PvE)?

Once the battle has started and group mates are sailing up and click the battle to join it, how is their OS position translated into the battle instance?

Thanks.

[Endar]

the join timer should be made a little longer also once entered in a pvp fight your group should only be able to enter that fight's instance during the join timer(will prevent annoying group splitting by multiple other groups

[Lianas]

If you think just because you are in a group you have the "right" to play with your groupmates, no matter how badly you adhere to the basic rules of gameplay, you are playing the wrong game.

Let me start by saying i like this game, alot, i have been a fan of the Wooden Ships and Iron Men style for a long time, I also enjoy PvP alot and been doing it a long time, the games ability to turn PvP in to a really Factor in the game world is the reason i am here.

I have always adapted to the mechanics of any PvP that i choose to play and will do that here. That said, I will voice my opinion on what i think about the Mechanics because i value what others have to say, and one can learn about how to better deal with the Mechanics.

I do have to disagree with you BPDLR, i do think i have the right to play with my group mates. Again, i don't have a problem with losses to players being Overextended, this happens in all PvP, even arena games like GW, but there is a big difference between someone arriving late to a fight because of overextending and someone arriving late to a fight because of overextending then being locked out of a fight for long periods of time.

[Lianas]

Lianas the lockout is there for the sole purpos of preventing a 1v1 fighting in TURNING into gank squads of 6v1.

I dont think the PvP in a Contested zone is about 1v1, dont get me wrong i am a fan of Duels, and i think there should be a Duel option in this game.

What i am trying to explain is that a group should be able to fight as a group, and not have part of its members locked out for long periods of time from coming to the aid of there groupmates.

[Lianas]

You got jumped because you had YOUR flag on; period. If your not willing to accept the reasonable battle tactics of another group that gives them the upper hand when you have every option to not get pulled into PvP by turning your flag off, then this game isn’t for you. You’re frustrated firstly because you’re not experienced with the game’s mechanics and suffered the consequences. I agree that there can be some slight improvements to the PvP mechanics, but you ARE in control.

Whoa there buddy, take it easy, I dont think i said anything about getting jumped because i had my flag on. YES if i am sailing in OS with my Flag on solo and i get jumped by a larger or even solo higher rated ship then me, i am asking for some pain, NP go full sail hit the best speed point of my ship and hit the Speed buffs, and waste those Seadogs time or make them work hard for there kill.

But if i am in a group of 6 with my flag on i want to fight with those 5 other mates and not have myself or them sitting on there butts for a long time cuz of a lockout.

[EMTsNightmare]

I can understand wanting to have all your group in the fight because you are grouped with them, or at least preventing group splitting in some way. But I don't think that just because you are grouped should mean you are instantly brought into the battle.

If you can't stick with your group then you shouldn't be included in the fight, its pretty much that simple.

Lets put it in terms of a bit more realistic setting. If your group is spread out over more than 20nm of sea then it is going to take them (in RL, not OS speeds) at least an hour to reach your battle instance. So based on that alone it would mean you would more than likely miss the battle completely for being so far away at the start of the battle.

So I in no way think allowing a limit of one minute is a bad thing, being 10 or 15 nm away at the start of the battle gives you more than enough time to get to the battle instance, rather than taking 30 or 45 minutes to get there.

You either need to accept the minute timer or open up the battle instance again for new people to show up after 45+ minutes have gone by. Either way you'll probably miss the battle and because you couldn't keep your group together on the OS have lost.

[warian]

I think you should be able to join for 60 seconds OR until the number of players on each side is even.

[Spinnaker Sam]

The idea that a game would allow, as part of its game mechanics, a member of a group to be locked out, for well over 20mins in some cases, from participation with the rest of his group mates is just unreal.
Is it any less unreal to be sunk during the first couple of minutes of a battle and then have to sit on your butt for 20 minutes while the rest of your group continues fighting the batttle? When it comes to being separated from your groupmates for a long period of time is there really any difference between the two situations? Either way you are prevented from being with your friends for an extended period of time.

So I don't really buy that as a valid argument for easing the restrictions on entry.

[Lianas]

Is it any less unreal to be sunk during the first couple of minutes of a battle and then have to sit on your butt for 20 minutes while the rest of your group continues fighting the batttle? When it comes to being separated from your groupmates for a long period of time is there really any difference between the two situations? Either way you are prevented from being with your friends for an extended period of time.

So I don't really buy that as a valid argument for easing the restrictions on entry.

Yes there is a BIG difference, If i am Sunk it is while i am doing my part to keep my group mates alive and partaking of the Group action. NOT sitting in OS while my Group is locked in a Battle that i am not part of.

[Arturos]

Had this yesterday. Will not be PvPing until something is done about the join mechanics:

1) 5 of us, flagged, engaged by 6 pirates. Fair enough we figure, we'll give it a go.
2) The actual "green circled" fight takes 35 seconds to appear for the rest of our group. By which time one player was already getting pounded by 6 pirates.
3) One player crashes on loading into the battle instance.
4) One player is engaged by level 47 NPC Pirates, despite being flagged.
5) One player spawns 3000yards from the pirates.
6) Two players spawn inside their lines.

Needless to say, 3 of us were sunk without return, mainly because of some ****ty joining mechanics.

This is nothing to do with "Keeping the group together". We are extremely careful when sailing through OS.

[bpdlr]

Had this yesterday. Will not be PvPing until something is done about the join mechanics:

1) 5 of us, flagged, engaged by 6 pirates. Fair enough we figure, we'll give it a go.
2) The actual "green circled" fight takes 35 seconds to appear for the rest of our group. By which time one player was already getting pounded by 6 pirates.
3) One player crashes on loading into the battle instance.
4) One player is engaged by level 47 NPC Pirates, despite being flagged.
5) One player spawns 3000yards from the pirates.
6) Two players spawn inside their lines.

Needless to say, 3 of us were sunk without return, mainly because of some ****ty joining mechanics.

This is nothing to do with "Keeping the group together". We are extremely careful when sailing through OS.

Sounds like a nightmare scenario. You were all SOL. This is not how most PvP works, so keep at it, you will find the rewards are far greater than the occasional "WTF?" situation.

[Broom]

Flares do not work in PVP.

I know, but nothing in the description of the power says they don't. Which creates confusion.

Linna

[jayfe]

I've never been in a group - Is there some form of /stick on the open sea? For the realism folks, consider this "formation sailing".

Basically, if you sail in formation, it is all or none of you. If you move off independantly, you take your own risks. I think that's very fair.

-Jeff

[Spinnaker Sam]

There is no /stick or /follow commands in the game. If you want to maintain some kind of formation you have to do it yourself. Just like it would be in real life.

[jayfe]

They could still put one in, just to deal with lag. The damage to realism is minimal - ship captains literally did play follow the leader in the day. Meanwhile, it cuts out a big chunk of these complaints pretty quickly - if you aren't part of the formation, then you risk not getting into the fight. That's pretty cut and dry.

-Jeff

[Wicked]

There is no /stick or /follow commands in the game. If you want to maintain some kind of formation you have to do it yourself. Just like it would be in real life.

And there is no lag in real life. I wouldn't mind if there was a way to form a flotilla as a group, but again, I still contend an open join, or at least less restrictive join would be more fun.

[Trobon]

I am very confused why it is so important to people to have "realism" vs fun. Is anyone here actually saying that not being able to play with your friends for a good ammount of time is fun because it's realistic? I can understand if you think your enemy not being able to is fun, but if that's true have the decency to say that.

An MMO is at its core a social game and to exclude someone because they were bugging or lagging or, yes, even too far away detracts from the overall ability to have those social aspects. No I am not saying change it because every other MMO is different. I am saying change it because I don't think many people want to pay $15 a month just to have to sit there while their frinds have fun. There is already an inherrent penalty for someone arriving late in a PvP encounter and that is the fact that they were late and thus thir team was down a person.

Also on a note of realism. Naval battles did not last 30 minutes or an hour. If your ship was an hour away you would get yourself over there ASAP to help and more likely than not (depending on the numbers of coarse) there would still be a battle to fight.

Personally I agree that until a side has six people it should be joinable by anyone of the same nation. This way solo PvPer can make a difference (especially in Open PvP areas) by helping groups that are already in battles and battles, in turn, can be more interesting. I am not saying that these battles should be able to be join infinetly. Once a total of 6 people had joined (regardless of how many were still alive) the team would be locked out.

[bpdlr]

I am very confused why it is so important to people to have "realism" vs fun. Is anyone here actually saying that not being able to play with your friends for a good ammount of time is fun because it's realistic? I can understand if you think your enemy not being able to is fun, but if that's true have the decency to say that.

An MMO is at its core a social game and to exclude someone because they were bugging or lagging or, yes, even too far away detracts from the overall ability to have those social aspects. No I am not saying change it because every other MMO is different. I am saying change it because I don't think many people want to pay $15 a month just to have to sit there while their frinds have fun. There is already an inherrent penalty for someone arriving late in a PvP encounter and that is the fact that they were late and thus thir team was down a person.

Also on a note of realism. Naval battles did not last 30 minutes or an hour. If your ship was an hour away you would get yourself over there ASAP to help and more likely than not (depending on the numbers of coarse) there would still be a battle to fight.

Personally I agree that until a side has six people it should be joinable by anyone of the same nation. This way solo PvPer can make a difference (especially in Open PvP areas) by helping groups that are already in battles and battles, in turn, can be more interesting. I am not saying that these battles should be able to be join infinetly. Once a total of 6 people had joined (regardless of how many were still alive) the team would be locked out.

While I agree there should be fun, there should also be balance. No-one wants an "I Win!" button. But if you don't have the group tactics sorted out enough to make sure you can all join the same battles, and stay in some sort of formation, then I suggest you start practising those tactics now, before the red circles start appearing. No, it may not be fun for your friend to be left out of a battle because he was not concentrating on keeping with the rest of the group. It will be even less fun when in a red circle, and he's left on his own and gobbled up by another group. And trust me, he will be, because us Pirates use tactics like that :yar:

Look, this is the way this game is designed. The ship combat of this game has been in development for longer than any part of the game, and has been guided by the singular vision of the FLS development team to be what it is now. For the majority of people in Beta, it worked fine, and was a lot of fun. Either you learn how to play by the rules set down, or you won't enjoy the game. FLS isn't worried by people posting "this game sucks, fix it or loads of people will leave!" because they know that there are many more people who enjoy the game immensely and there are many more who will learn to play it and enjoy it.

[Kamui]

I disagree BP, everyone (or at least many if not most) want an 'iwin' button. What they DON'T want is for others to have said button.

Remember Kamui's gamers mantra: Anything which enables you to barely eke out a victory against me is horribly overpowered and must be nerfed immediately or else the game is dooomed. Anything which enables me to wtfpwnj00@22 someone else with utter ease is working as intended.

[bpdlr]

I disagree BP, everyone (or at least many if not most) want an 'iwin' button. What they DON'T want is for others to have said button.

Remember Kamui's gamers mantra: Anything which enables you to barely eke out a victory against me is horribly overpowered and must be nerfed immediately or else the game is dooomed. Anything which enables me to wtfpwnj00@22 someone else with utter ease is working as intended.

Indeed, many people complaining on these forums forget that all Nations have the same advantages/disadvantages when it comes to game mechanics like joining battles, OS/instance positioning, PvP flags etc.

[Spinnaker Sam]

I am not saying that these battles should be able to be join infinetly. Once a total of 6 people had joined (regardless of how many were still alive) the team would be locked out.
Then you open up port sitting again. Where you have your bait sitting out there waiting to be attacked. Then once the instance is open he runs around until his friends show up who were safely hidden in port. It also means that someone could run around in an instance for 5 minutes avoiding your attacks until his friends from 500 miles away show up. With the current system it is still possible to get a 1v1 battle. With this idea, a 1v1 battle would be rare. Most battles would wind up as 6 v 6, just because people can now travel from hundreds of miles away to join one.