FLS Petition. 1vs1 limited flag option

[texaspacific]

I dont want to be ganked.. But i am ready to take on anyone 1 on 1.. Is it possible to give us the choice of PVP flags? 1 vs 1 pvp flag.. (just like now you limit the number by six)

eg port captain will allow you to enable limited pvp flag and full pvp flag.. (it can even have10% os speed penalty for 1on1 pvp flag)

That would make pvp more enjoyable and fun.. And actually more people will use pvp flags if you do this. The best thing about it is that it will limit ganking by 6 noobs who will think twice before attacking 1 player with a flag cos only 1 player could join the created battle instance!

Those who like the idea sign below.

[johnnyjet]

Well something needs to be done for people who want to solo PVP. What I mainly see in the forums is if you want to solo PVP you are **** out of luck. If the game is not made for solo pvp and anyone who wants that is considered crying, then you can expect a whole lot of crying when the game goes live. There is a segment of folks who only want to solo pvp. If nothing is done on that front those folks won't stay with the game.

The current game IS solo unfriendly, that's why a separate pvp server and other ideas regarding this issue keep being presented like a solo PVP flag and the joining mechanics posts.

If FLS doesn't want solo PVP players in the game (there is no crying in the red circle) then that's fine. But people are going to complain, when they bought a game for PVP and they find that fun solo PVP is not really an option. And if you do complain about it, the community considers you a crybaby. This issue is not going to go away anytime soon.

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Sail a speed rigged xebec or packet. Run from gank packs until they leave you alone and you can walk around 1v1ing with impunity. Don't think it works? I did it for months in CB and outran gank packs hundreds of times without a loss.

[Spinnaker Sam]

Bad idea. It means that as a solo PvPer with my 1v1 flag set, I can swoop in and grab a flagged ship away from his groupmates and they can't do anything to help him. Unless you are saying that someone with a 1v1 flag cannot attack a full flagged ship. Which means that someone with a full flag shouldn't be able to attack a 1v1 flagged ship. Which sort of reduces the amount of PvP created by the flags and also confuses who can do what to whom.

[EMTsNightmare]

Bad idea. It means that as a solo PvPer with my 1v1 flag set, I can swoop in and grab a flagged ship away from his groupmates and they can't do anything to help him. Unless you are saying that someone with a 1v1 flag cannot attack a full flagged ship. Which means that someone with a full flag shouldn't be able to attack a 1v1 flagged ship. Which sort of reduces the amount of PvP created by the flags and also confuses who can do what to whom.

Or they could set it up so that the 1v1 limitation is only on him getting attacked. That way it works basically like an "i'm here come duel me" flag.

If he attacks someone with a full pvp flag then it works the way it currently does. If he gets attacked by someone with a full PVP flag on, or anyone else, its a 1v1.

I don't see how it could possibly hurt.

[Spinnaker Sam]

Do you feel that people that are flagged as 1v1 should still be allowed to group with other people? Or should they only be able to sail by themselves?

[EMTsNightmare]

Idk what the grouping would get them, other than the ability to jump into NPC fights, or into full PVP fights (initiated by one of them, or by someone else attacking one of their friends).

Basically the way (I think) it should work would be...

Player A turns on his solo PVP flag.
1v1 PVP ensues when the following conditions are met:
1) Player A is outside a Red circle
2) Player A attacks someone with their solo PVP flag on or Player A is attacked by anyone.

Normal PVP ensues when either of the above conditions are not met.

[ZaiRoX]

1on1 pvping is not at all impossible. It does require abit more patience since you have to carefully pick your fights. That said, I die much less when 1on1 pvping than I do in groups. Get dark wrapped gear and stealth skills and watch ganksquads closely. Often they will spread out abit when trying to enter a battle instance to gank another player. It's not that difficult to "steal" on of their members away and create a 1on1. The kills you get for it is also much more rewarding as they essentially died because they were stupid and unpatient :)

[icbatsnata]

Four changes I think could be made to help alleviate some gank-frustration. This isn't a whine or complaint, just throwing it out there.

1) If anyone in a group clicks the 'attack' button on OS, everyone in their group gets the crossed swords above their ship. This would allow the pursued to see, at a glance, if it really is 1v1 or a gank attempt.

2) When grouped, only the group leader can set PvP on/off. This setting would apply to all characters in the group (whether or not they personally have their flag set).

3) When you target someone in a group, show the names (above the ship, just like your target) of everyone in their group, excluding those out of visual range.

4) Add an 'I'm grouped' icon next to a groupmember's name, similar to the crown the group leader gets.

[AxilX]

Garbad is right, if you want to solo PvP, choose a ship that can outrun most out there. I used an MC Xebec in open beta, and was never once stuck in an engagement i could not escape. A couple times i even ran from a group, waited until the tacklers seporated out significantly, and killed one or two memebers of a six man group before leaving the instance. Solo PVP is possible, just don't bring a lone frigate. I do think it would be nice to see a /duel feature though for consentual 1v1 PvP between two people.

[Geograd]

I think the OP has a valid point. I think you should be able to have a "duel" flag on instead of a pvp flag. Or along WITH a pvp flag. This way if someone wants to just duel you then they have the option of doing so. If they don't then they won't be able to attack you if you only have the "duel" flag on.

Table of explaination:
D = duel flagged
P = pvp flagged
N = not flagged

Player1 | Player2 | PX can attack PY | PX and group can attack PY
D--------|N--------|No-----------------|No
D--------|D--------|Yes----------------|No
D&P-----|D--------|Yes----------------|No
P--------|D--------|No-----------------|No
D&P-----|D&P-----|Yes-----------------|Yes
D&P-----|P--------|Yes-----------------|Yes
P--------|P--------|Yes-----------------|Yes

[PandaRuns]

I read an interview that mentioned a skirmish mode with quite a bit of detail that is planned for the future. :)

[Spinnaker Sam]

A duel flag would just be exploited. A French and Spanish player could duel each other to avoid an incoming Spanish or French gank squad. Then they would be safe inside their instance for as long as they want to be there. So for that reason alone I don't think duelling on the Open Seas should be allowed.

Initiating a duel while in port using the upcoming Player Created Events system will allow people to set up their own duels. Just don't let it be enabled on the Open Seas.

[Cik]

Well something needs to be done for people who want to solo PVP.

This is a community game. I think solo-oriented games are best for 1v1 pick-up pvp.

[texaspacific]

This is a community game. I think solo-oriented games are best for 1v1 pick-up pvp.

it is a community oriented game.. and we have pvp zones for "everything allowed" attitude.

But then if it is a community oriented game then let go the limit of players in a battle instance.. in this case a group of 6 spanish players wont feel safe in bahamas anymore because every pirate in bahamas will want their loot and marks of victory.. imagine the nation channel.. 6 spaniards in a battle near morgan bluff!! what do you think will happen if the community limit is taken off? We will see real fleets like in real life cos noone will want to die in enemy territory..

[arcticfire]

This is a community game. I think solo-oriented games are best for 1v1 pick-up pvp.

Community games don't force 90% instancing on everyone. This is not a specific kind of 'class' game. Solo and Group play is supported here. The only difference is that Solo PvP is not seperated out from group pvp.

Personally I'm neutral on the subject. I had no real trouble doing solo PvP in OB , but then it was a lot of dodging group gank squads just to find one good 1v1 fight , and even then many times the fight was just running down someone trying ot escape cause you caught him away from his group. Still you shouldn't throw solo play aside thinking the fact that you all sail under the Britain flag means everyone needs to group up or unsubscribe.

[johnnyjet]

"Still you shouldn't throw solo play aside thinking the fact that you all sail under the Britain flag means everyone needs to group up or unsubscribe."


/Agree. Everytime I hear There is No Crying in the Red Circle, the mantra of this game, I interpret it that way - group up or unsubscribe or don't PVP. And it is meant that way from many posters in these forums.

Come live, as people who bought the game for PVP and prefer to solo come on board, there will be crying. And I am afraid that if the game does not develop or address FUN solo pvp, then that segment of players WILL chose to unsubscribe.

[mintut0182]

"Still you shouldn't throw solo play aside thinking the fact that you all sail under the Britain flag means everyone needs to group up or unsubscribe."


/Agree. Everytime I hear There is No Crying in the Red Circle, the mantra of this game, I interpret it that way - group up or unsubscribe or don't PVP. And it is meant that way from many posters in these forums.

Come live, as people who bought the game for PVP and prefer to solo come on board, there will be crying. And I am afraid that if the game does not develop or address FUN solo pvp, then that segment of players WILL chose to unsubscribe.


Exactly. And without PvP, this game will not survive long I don't think. I enjoy it a lot, even the repetitive PvE; I'm a PvP'er, but if I'm constantly getting overrun by gank squads, constantly having to outrun them, constantly having to wait 60 seconds to see if I'm going to get attacked by more players, and constantly NOT being able to fight a fair fight, then I won't have much of a choice but to unsubscribe.

It's a community game, but there are choices for a reason. People don't HAVE to be in a society, people don't HAVE to group up. We all have the option to do these things, and keep in contact with each other. Not all Pirates and Nationals back in the 1700's attacked in huge groups.

[bonelizzard]

Ok, it seems a lot of people are having different experiences on this one.

If gank squads would learn not to jump ships they cant catch then 1v1 pvp is available and profitable. I have been in red circles where gank squads ignore me, and others where they jump me over and over again missing out on targets they actually could have killed.

While I will argue till I am blue in the face that you can solo pvp in this game if you want to learn, I do like the idea of some 1v1 type options.

We will see some of these come with the skirmish mode.

I wanted to put this out there as an idea however:

Since most pirating for profit is done solo why not make the pirate pvp zones (the outer, lighter part of the red circle) a 1v1 area only. The big groups can dominate the inner circle, but it will be the skilled pvpers that dominate the outer circle. Big groups trying to get to the inner circle will have to demonstrate some prowess or caution in order to get to the gank zone (or you could leave a little path for them to use). Also players new to pvp have a place to go where they can get their feet wet without the displeasure of being ganked.

I would recommend these zones only when the port has been put into full contention. The pirate pvp zones of 5k contention points to 7k contention points (i hope i got the numbers right, i understand the ports near beginner areas have different values and/or decay rates) and raided ports could remain the same.

Ultimately I think the problem here (and the point of the original post) is that there is no easy way to get involved in pvp as a beginner with out joining a large society. At the moment it involves a fair amount of outfitting and tactics to even get 1v1 fights on a regular basis.

[mintut0182]

Ok, it seems a lot of people are having different experiences on this one.

If gank squads would learn not to jump ships they cant catch then 1v1 pvp is available and profitable. I have been in red circles where gank squads ignore me, and others where they jump me over and over again missing out on targets they actually could have killed.

While I will argue till I am blue in the face that you can solo pvp in this game if you want to learn, I do like the idea of some 1v1 type options.

We will see some of these come with the skirmish mode.

I wanted to put this out there as an idea however:

Since most pirating for profit is done solo why not make the pirate pvp zones (the outer, lighter part of the red circle) a 1v1 area only. The big groups can dominate the inner circle, but it will be the skilled pvpers that dominate the outer circle. Big groups trying to get to the inner circle will have to demonstrate some prowess or caution in order to get to the gank zone (or you could leave a little path for them to use). Also players new to pvp have a place to go where they can get their feet wet without the displeasure of being ganked.

I would recommend these zones only when the port has been put into full contention. The pirate pvp zones of 5k contention points to 7k contention points (i hope i got the numbers right, i understand the ports near beginner areas have different values and/or decay rates) and raided ports could remain the same.

Ultimately I think the problem here (and the point of the original post) is that there is no easy way to get involved in pvp as a beginner with out joining a large society. At the moment it involves a fair amount of outfitting and tactics to even get 1v1 fights on a regular basis.

You CAN pvp solo only if these people are not grouped up...there are too many privateers at this level with much faster ships, and Hermes Sleek Packet Boats aren't the easiest things to find.

If I'm getting ganked with my flag on in a Corsair Xebec or Locust, I lose those ships, it's as simple as that. I can immediately go to full speed as soon as the battle starts, and there-is-no-way-of-outrunning-them. I'm this close [ ] to unflagging, and if I can't partake in PvP with a flag up, I won't be playing this game very long, guaranteed, and I know others won't either.

I know exactly how to PvP 1v1. In most other mmos, I knew how to take on 2v1, 3v1, 4v1, etc. In this game, that is near impossible as long as the players go for your sails.

[FryaDuck]

What a joke the 1 v 1 whine is, as is this thread.

Much easier to put the 1 v 1 fights back in Tortuga or use the Port Captains in any port to engage in 1 v 1 pvp. Sign up at the Captain have a choice of "risk" (you lose your ship) or "no risk" (no loss of ship). With no risk you could even fight against your own faction. Perhaps even a 6 player FFA.

[bonelizzard]

If I'm getting ganked with my flag on in a Corsair Xebec or Locust, I lose those ships, it's as simple as that. I can immediately go to full speed as soon as the battle starts, and there-is-no-way-of-outrunning-them.

You are close dont give up now. Are you playing pirate?

If so use a Sleek Xebec (easily available around Santa Clara) all med3 speed outfittings, a streamlined Structure 1. Make sure you have the skills tack up wind and sacrifice for speed.

If you do find yourself in an instance and that chaser in a lance cutter is catching you upwind try turning just a little bit closer to the wind, almost but not luffing.

If you still cant get away change the speed rigs on your sails to carthpins (sry for spelling).

Believe me, there is no-way-they-can-catch-you, unless your client crashes when you exit the instance. (this happened to me once and is the only time I have been caught in a rig like this even when they spwn all over you)

The Sleek Xebec, MC Bermuda, an MC Cutter, a Lance Cutter, a Hermes Packet Boat (if you can get your hands on one) are all viable ships with these tactics at this stage. Attack the mobs of 2 or more lvl 20's you will have no problem finding a packet boat, if you cant handle these mobs solo, get a friend.

I am happy to provide any pirates on Antigua with these fittings at very reasonable prices (production cost +10%) if I know it means you are going to sink national merchants. Name is Bone Lizzard in game, I play oceanic times so might be hard to get me online if your in the states.

[mintut0182]

I finally found a Hermes Sleek Boat, and I'm going to look for speed mods, it's just an annoyance I guess, seeing as how the Privateer boats so friggin fast, and my Corsair and Locust had 0 chance of outrunning them. Half the time, the additional people joining the battle spawn in firing range and keep me in combat anyway.

[bonelizzard]

Forget about the locust, you might get away with a corsair... maybe.

Try buffing your os speed with that pvp token hand in. Should let you control the wind position of the spwn a little better. If they really close before they attack you, attack them first while they are at a distance, assuming they are flagged and not complete cowards.

[mintut0182]

Forget about the locust, you might get away with a corsair... maybe.

Try buffing your os speed with that pvp token hand in. Should let you control the wind position of the spwn a little better. If they really close before they attack you, attack them first while they are at a distance, assuming they are flagged and not complete cowards.

Yeah, it's not too much OS I have the problem with...I spot ahead of time and only see one player every single time. But when I get into battle, no matter how far apart we are from each other, the others just randomly spawn near me, and they're able to shoot my sails before I can even attempt a run. But IDK...annoying system.

[texaspacific]

summary:

it would be nice to have an option to have solo pvp flag everywhere on the map.. (unless you are in a pvp zone near the port then of course i am willing to accept the risk of 1 vs 6 fight)... this make more players carry pvp flag everywhere.. and we will actually see MORE pvp fights than we see now.

[othr]

Most PvP in this game is ganking someone or getting ganked anyway. In a full group you will end up chasing solos and smaller groups a lot and rarely will you get a 6v6 fight where both sides are ready to fight. Soloing is definitely possible, the main problem is instanced combat, you never fully know how many random people will enter a battle instance. 60s is enough to travel 200 miles or something :)

I think that's the main reason this keeps on coming up, there just isn't enough fair and fun fights.

[mintut0182]

Most PvP in this game is ganking someone or getting ganked anyway. In a full group you will end up chasing solos and smaller groups a lot and rarely will you get a 6v6 fight where both sides are ready to fight. Soloing is definitely possible, the main problem is instanced combat, you never fully know how many random people will enter a battle instance. 60s is enough to travel 200 miles or something :)

I think that's the main reason this keeps on coming up, there just isn't enough fair and fun fights.

Too true. Bottom line for me, 60 seconds is just simply too long. I hope they decrease that, and decrease it by a lot! I don't like killing people in a gank squad, nor is getting killed by a gank squad much fun. Pirate or not, I still miss the honorable fights.

[othr]

Hmm actually if they could do it like this... If you were within 50 miles of where a battle was initiated you can enter it for 60s, if you were too far tough luck? I know I would be all for it!

[Tenumen]

Too true. Bottom line for me, 60 seconds is just simply too long. I hope they decrease that, and decrease it by a lot! I don't like killing people in a gank squad, nor is getting killed by a gank squad much fun. Pirate or not, I still miss the honorable fights.

The problem with reducing this is that the larger ships take so long to turn around in the OS that if a team member just to your rear (just outside auto-pull in distance) gets attacked, you sometimes need the full 60s to just turn around to get in.

Of course -increasing the auto-pull in range and decrease the timer would work.

Regarding the OP question -I would love to get more 1v1 chances. I really miss that these days too. Last night I sailed about in a Posti trying to find some solo fun -leaving myself open to ganking -but no-one was interested. When I finally sat outside Sisal (with a single team-mate this time) it took 20 mins for LBT to get together and then they only attacked once they had a 2 to 1 advantage :(

Oh well -I suppose I had just better work hard on improving my group sailing skills.

[PandaRuns]

QQ.

Petitions are cute. Too bad this one is utterly stupid. Not to mention pointless. Hi I play and online MMO and get killed in PvP by groups of players who attacked while I allowed myself to be a target. Nothing is stopping me from being social and getting a group, so here is my thread. It consists of threats to me not playing your game in the future as well how bad your game will do if this isn't addressed.

lol.

[mintut0182]

The problem with reducing this is that the larger ships take so long to turn around in the OS that if a team member just to your rear (just outside auto-pull in distance) gets attacked, you sometimes need the full 60s to just turn around to get in.

Of course -increasing the auto-pull in range and decrease the timer would work.

Regarding the OP question -I would love to get more 1v1 chances. I really miss that these days too. Last night I sailed about in a Posti trying to find some solo fun -leaving myself open to ganking -but no-one was interested. When I finally sat outside Sisal (with a single team-mate this time) it took 20 mins for LBT to get together and then they only attacked once they had a 2 to 1 advantage :(

Oh well -I suppose I had just better work hard on improving my group sailing skills.

Right, but by not joining the OS battle right away, the slower ship gets the advantage over EVERYONE by using up the full time and jumping in whenever/wherever he wants, screwing everyone else over.

If you group pvp in OS, you should have to stick together...meaning, if you have a slower ship in the group, you should have to use it as part of your convoy, and have him or her be the slowest part of the group.

How the battle starts in OS should be carried over in combat imo...those ships DO turn slowly, but they have a painful broadside, especially when they warp 80 yards east of you, and immediately hit your stern armor, or take 10+% of your sails out in 1 hit.

[bpdlr]

Well something needs to be done for people who want to solo PVP. What I mainly see in the forums is if you want to solo PVP you are **** out of luck. If the game is not made for solo pvp and anyone who wants that is considered crying, then you can expect a whole lot of crying when the game goes live. There is a segment of folks who only want to solo pvp. If nothing is done on that front those folks won't stay with the game.

The current game IS solo unfriendly, that's why a separate pvp server and other ideas regarding this issue keep being presented like a solo PVP flag and the joining mechanics posts.

If FLS doesn't want solo PVP players in the game (there is no crying in the red circle) then that's fine. But people are going to complain, when they bought a game for PVP and they find that fun solo PVP is not really an option. And if you do complain about it, the community considers you a crybaby. This issue is not going to go away anytime soon.

This game is *not* solo-unfriendly. It's just that people with 10 days' experience and erroneous expectations stick their PvP flag on and expect to be engaged in fair fights. It's not going to happen!

There is nothing to show that FLS doesn't care for solo PvPers, it's just that a lot of people who come to cry on the forums haven't learnt how to play yet.

I have had my PvP flag on since the 7th. I have soloed most of that time (it's not worth forming a group with so few pickings). I have been jumped by groups and ran (I wish I had a screenshot of the spawn I got in a recent fight - 2 enemy Postis right on top of me, yet I still managed to get away). And I have jumped single players and had others joining, and still won. Sometimes I'e even run from a group, and then found most of them have exited and I can pick off the lone chaser.

Solo PvP is my preferred playstyle TBH because there's no-one else to mess up but me :) As Garbad says, get a fast ship and let the "gank squads" chase you until they get bored. However if you put your PvP flag on to make OS travel more comfortable and you get jumped by a group, don't come into the forums and start whining about how life's unfair. It isn't, you just made a bad decision.

[bpdlr]

You CAN pvp solo only if these people are not grouped up...there are too many privateers at this level with much faster ships, and Hermes Sleek Packet Boats aren't the easiest things to find.

If I'm getting ganked with my flag on in a Corsair Xebec or Locust, I lose those ships, it's as simple as that. I can immediately go to full speed as soon as the battle starts, and there-is-no-way-of-outrunning-them. I'm this close [ ] to unflagging, and if I can't partake in PvP with a flag up, I won't be playing this game very long, guaranteed, and I know others won't either.

I know exactly how to PvP 1v1. In most other mmos, I knew how to take on 2v1, 3v1, 4v1, etc. In this game, that is near impossible as long as the players go for your sails.

You, sir, are an embarrassment to the Pirate Nation. If it's not possible to run from a fight, get a faster ship, or make sure you have the right skills. If you lose a few ships, who cares? Did you pay for them?

[johnnyjet]

"It's just that people with 10 days' experience and erroneous expectations stick their PvP flag on and expect to be engaged in fair fights. It's not going to happen!"

I agree with you, the current game does not give any expectations for fair fights.

Won't be long before you find out how many people bought the game with that expectation in mind, that they can regularly have fun PVP fights 1 on 1. Every ad I see for this game is 1 ship vs 1 ship by the way.

I do know how to run, and I do know how to fight, but the games overall PVP mechanics do not live up to my expectations of what I thought the game was going to be. Sorry, alot of the PVP setup here is just not fun in my opinion. There are a zillion posts from various people on ways to improve the PVP, so I am not alone on that.

I have great hopes for the game and we post here in the hopes that the DEVS will address these issues for the betterment of the game for some folks, if that is possible. It's not a whine, but a hope. If it's not going to happen then so be it. People will move on.

"it's just that a lot of people who come to cry on the forums haven't learnt how to play yet."

Thanks for validating my comment that if you complain about the current PVP some people in the community consider you a crybaby. You might want to consider that some people won't want to learn how to play if it's not enjoyable to them.

Anyway, I think it won't be long before you have an answer whether most PVPr's, buying the game, will be willing to play and learn it the way it is currently designed. This forum will be one way to measure that approval or disapproval.

[mintut0182]

You, sir, are an embarrassment to the Pirate Nation. If it's not possible to run from a fight, get a faster ship, or make sure you have the right skills. If you lose a few ships, who cares? Did you pay for them?

Embarrassment my ***. I'm flagged and I put up a fight because I know I can't find a faster ship. After getting a Hermes Sleek (the fastest ship at our level), I can outrun ganksquads more often than not, but people still warp right next to me and take out my sails. And yes, I do pay for these ships, with 2 hours time each time I lose it.

So stfu, and perhaps learn to flag yourself and help your own pirate nation out. If people wanna kill me, they'll have to gank me, as I'm not losing a 1v1 fight.

[jayfe]

I've skimmed over this thread. While I personally can't stand duelling, I see no reason why this playstyle shouldn't be catered to. Maybe not right away, but soon.

I think a duelling flag is possible. The duelling flag prohibits grouping, and is only active outside of red-rings (take your duels out of the pvp areas). Only duelists can fight each other, and they are still PvE enabled (no sneaking out of PvE with this flag).

I don't see how this would harm anybody, cause any conflicts in game mechanics, allow for exploits, etc. Again, once you are outside of a group and outside of a PvP area, knock yourself silly.

-Jeff

P.S. another option is to allow duels to be initiated from inside non-contested ports. You arrange the duel in port, accept, and then the coxswain gives you a "duel person X" mission. Once both join, 30 secs for loading, then it's off to the races.

[bonelizzard]

If people wanna kill me, they'll have to gank me, as I'm not losing a 1v1 fight.

Hehe, spoken like a true pirate.

Get the sail repair skill from the defence tree, combine that with mast braces or whatever they are called. You now have 2 ways to repair your sails, might help with those ugly spwns.

[mintut0182]

Hehe, spoken like a true pirate.

Get the sail repair skill from the defence tree, combine that with mast braces or whatever they are called. You now have 2 ways to repair your sails, might help with those ugly spwns.

Certainly going to need to Bone. Right now I'm all about boarding for PvE and a few PvP tricks, but that sail repair is nuts, and I need that.

[texaspacific]

QQ.

Petitions are cute. Too bad this one is utterly stupid. Not to mention pointless. Hi I play and online MMO and get killed in PvP by groups of players who attacked while I allowed myself to be a target. Nothing is stopping me from being social and getting a group, so here is my thread. It consists of threats to me not playing your game in the future as well how bad your game will do if this isn't addressed.

lol.

so you are saying if you cant fight alone get a group but i have one.. and most of the times my group wins.. if i am alone i can outrun any ship in this game but I DONT WANT TO RUN!.. what do you do ag 6 players? Your comment is cute but where do you find opponents in this game now? 6 spaniards near tortuga all without PvP flags are waiting for a brave brit or french with a pvp flag to gank him (or her).. so who is brave here?

SOLUTION - dueling flag... in any pvp zone it works like normal.. (prepare to be ganked) but in OS it will only let 1 player attack you..MOREOVER.. it will kill the ganking because skilled players will pick the pvp flagged opponent in the 6 ship group and attack the guy themselves (most of the times "brave pvp groups" have only 1 person flagged). And gradually will kill the whole group 1 by 1.. ganking outside of pvp zones will dissapear! if you let the dueling flag in the game! It will be even more fun after exp limit is lifted.. lots of skilled players will sink higher level ships and people will think twice before attacking a flagged player.

[PandaRuns]

There's a difference between bravery and stupidity. Overall the 6 that just ganked I'm sure aren't doing it to show off how "brave" they are. They're doing it to kill people. Simple. Hell if people are going to solo flag themselves and I know where they're coming from, it'd be fun as hell to sink them like that. Maybe after 2-3 of those people get sunk they'd do something other than throw up a whine thread on a forum. Only a select few people would bother to 1v1 flag themselves. The idea is just bad. So I can run around solo PvP flagged and always fight 1v1. Yeah, no. How about then make it so only duel flagged players can attack you and you don't get a speed buff AND you still aggro NPC's. I think that's fair then. That way the 4 of you on different servers can throw up another whine thread about how hardly anyone uses the solo flag. You mention where do you find opponents? I think you answered that one partly. My opponents apparently come out of ports solo and flagged of course. lol. But moreso when contention opens up there will be plenty of opponents and I can't wait to read some of the threads that're going to go up when the red rings do.

[bpdlr]

So stfu, and perhaps learn to flag yourself and help your own pirate nation out. If people wanna kill me, they'll have to gank me, as I'm not losing a 1v1 fight.

Whoah there tiger!

I've been flagged since the 7th, so you're preaching to the wrong guy. My post was somewhat tongue in cheek. We don't pay for ships so who cares about the odd gank or two? Although I'd hate to lose my Lancer... then again, I've run from fights where two enemy Postis spawned right next to me.

The OPs idea is plainly rubbish, let's just have fun taking it apart shall we and not start some sort of Pirate civil war? :yar:

[Spinnaker Sam]

Sorry a dueling flag won't work. Too exploitable. You'll have, for example, French and Spanish players sailing together and then attacking each other whenever some enemy ships get too close. It becomes instant immunity from attack.

As it is now, if you tried that with either French or Spanish enemies around, they could jump into the instance, the dueling flag would prevent that and allow players to avoid unwanted PvP.

[bonelizzard]

What about my idea Sam... No one seems to have picked up on it.

[bpdlr]

Sorry a dueling flag won't work. Too exploitable. You'll have, for example, French and Spanish players sailing together and then attacking each other whenever some enemy ships get too close. It becomes instant immunity from attack.

As it is now, if you tried that with either French or Spanish enemies around, they could jump into the instance, the dueling flag would prevent that and allow players to avoid unwanted PvP.

No-one has pointed out the obvious flaw, that a Freetrader could use a duelling flag to ensure that he only ever got jumped by one other player. He could still have the OS speed buff etc. but limit his chances of being attacked by players. It's not that he's looking for a 1v1, he's looking to minimise the risk of PvP combat altogether.

[Spinnaker Sam]

Since most pirating for profit is done solo why not make the pirate pvp zones (the outer, lighter part of the red circle) a 1v1 area only. The big groups can dominate the inner circle, but it will be the skilled pvpers that dominate the outer circle. Big groups trying to get to the inner circle will have to demonstrate some prowess or caution in order to get to the gank zone (or you could leave a little path for them to use). Also players new to pvp have a place to go where they can get their feet wet without the displeasure of being ganked.

Although the idea is better than some I've seen, it does have a problem. It basically allows the pirate to pick his target (the poor lightly armed FT) without having to worry about the escort. The only counter to this would be to pull the pirate into an instance first. But, is that really a fun way of playing the game for either side?

What I'd prefer is removing the 60 second entry timer for Pirate PvP. That would still allow grouped ships within 10 miles of each other to join in, but still give pirates the possibility of catching a straggler in a 1v1 situation.

[texaspacific]

Although the idea is better than some I've seen, it does have a problem. It basically allows the pirate to pick his target (the poor lightly armed FT) without having to worry about the escort. The only counter to this would be to pull the pirate into an instance first. But, is that really a fun way of playing the game for either side?


I dont see the point for a FT to put a pvp flag on.(to be picked on) as well as for his escort. cos the suggestion is that 1v1 pvp flag only working outside pvp zones near ports. Inside the pvp zone everything works like normal with ganking and such.

[texaspacific]

No-one has pointed out the obvious flaw, that a Freetrader could use a duelling flag to ensure that he only ever got jumped by one other player. He could still have the OS speed buff etc. but limit his chances of being attacked by players. It's not that he's looking for a 1v1, he's looking to minimise the risk of PvP combat altogether.

same as above.. 1v1 pvp flag only works OUTSIDE pvp zones near ports.. so there is no point for a FT to put it on..

[Gustave Molyneux]

Won't the skirmish system that FLS is designing pretty well take care of the ability to guarantee a duel?

Just set up 1 vs 1 skirmishes with whatever rules the system will allow. Supposedly it's gonna be one of the features in thier first big post launch updates.

I don't see the need for a 1 vs 1 flag once the skirmish system is in place.

[Death]

I totally agree (mabye a 3vs3 also)
signed

[PandaRuns]

No.

12345678

[Spinnaker Sam]

I dont see the point for a FT to put a pvp flag on.(to be picked on) as well as for his escort. cos the suggestion is that 1v1 pvp flag only working outside pvp zones near ports. Inside the pvp zone everything works like normal with ganking and such.

Please reread Bonelizzard's suggestion that I convienently requoted. It has nothing to do with a PvP flag. His suggestion is dealing with changing how the Pirate PvP zone works. That is what I commented on. It had nothing to do with flags.

[Spinnaker Sam]

Won't the skirmish system that FLS is designing pretty well take care of the ability to guarantee a duel?

Just set up 1 vs 1 skirmishes with whatever rules the system will allow. Supposedly it's gonna be one of the features in thier first big post launch updates.

I don't see the need for a 1 vs 1 flag once the skirmish system is in place.

The skirmish system is only good if both sides are in the same port. So if you want to duel with someone that you meet on the open seas, you have to signal them your intentions, then sail to the nearest port, create the mission and the start the duel. Not quite as easy as flagging yourself or having a single click duel button on the UI. So it is a step in the right direction, but it still takes a bit of coordination to get the duel you want.

But, as I say. Dueling options have no place in the Open Seas unless they don't work within a PvP zone or if you already have another PvP flag active.

[soltr]

at the port captain you set your group limit to 1,2,3,4,5 or Open.

in Open Sea the group limit is displayed by the player name.

any group can attack any group, but no extra ships may enter a battle unless it's an Open group.

players who enjoy 1v1 would have to find another player with a 1 group limit and they can freely have a 1v1 match or any other combination of group limit groups. players can sail the seas looking for the even match or the handicap match, or even the underdog match.

[bpdlr]

I totally agree (mabye a 3vs3 also)
signed

Are we going to get every noob who hasn't learnt to play the game yet signing these awful threads?

Maybe I should start a few petition threads of my own....

1) I want to be able to put all the guns and armour on my ship on one side only. I don't see why I have to use only half my abilities at one time, and then turn around to use the other half!

2) OS speed is too slow, I want a mount!

3) Can we have a mail system please so I can send my friend this ammo I'm making?

4) I want to be able to man the guns in my port to sink all those pesky Pirates that are outside stopping me from leaving.

5) Can we have muskets in the game? That way I could have a Sniper Musket and kill the enemy captain with one shot! Just like Nelson!

[texaspacific]

Are we going to get every noob who hasn't learnt to play the game yet signing these awful threads?


first its a free country man
second can you by chance win in 1 vs 6 situation where everyone is 21 and has the same ship..? maybe you share super tactics for those who dont want to run from encounters

[bpdlr]

first its a free country man
second can you by chance win in 1 vs 6 situation where everyone is 21 and has the same ship..? maybe you share super tactics for those who dont want to run from encounters

By win do you mean sink all 6 ships? Or do you mean survive? Or maybe somewhere in between, like sinking 3 ships?

The last two have been done, and the 2nd happens all the time, in fact most of the time.

And which country are you referring to? These are moderated internet forums, so no, it's not free and it's not even a country.

[johnnyjet]

Are we going to get every noob who hasn't learnt to play the game yet signing these awful threads?

No not all, but you sure are going to have alot of them. As you can see from many threads in the PVP forum and others, there are alot of questions and complaints about the current PVP mechanics. The PVP mechanics designed into the game are not simple or easy for the new player, especially one who expects to open the box, leave port, and jump into a fair, fun PVP fight.

The PVP system is fairly complex for the casual player (and I think FLS really blew it here), PVP flags, who can join battle instances, ships that are automatically PVP flagged, red circles, outer red circles, invisible group members, invisible ships, OS cluttered with agro NPC's, Can't attack enemy nation ships unless contention, (after launch) Red circles cluttered with uber groups, etc. and all this happening at closing speeds on the OS that can approach 160 knots. The complexity should have been in the instance, not in the roll up or prep for the instance. That's what is sucking the fun out of the game for the new, casual PVP player.

BPLDR we know you have learned the game as it is, and you love it. I am happy for you, there are alot of folks who have been thru the beta who feel just like you do. You say FLS is not going to change it so deal with it and learn it. I would agree they are not going to change it.

I think the important issue is whether the new players coming on board will be willing to deal with it and learn it, or say screw it, it's just not fun, it's too confusing, it's not what I expected, so I'm outta here.

I don't know what FLS had hoped that the game would be, one for the masses or a niche game. I believe that if the mechanics stay as they are it's headed in the niche direction which could be all well and good for the vets who love the game as it is and FLS. I don't know.

I do think though that if we take an attitude toward new players that they need to learn it or leave it, you are pushing POTBS in the niche direction. These people have the right to complain in the hope that some changes are made. They want to love the game as much as you do, that's why they are complaining. I think intolerance towards the new players complaints is not good for anyone in the overall POTBS community.

[bpdlr]

No not all, but you sure are going to have alot of them. As you can see from many threads in the PVP forum and others, there are alot of questions and complaints about the current PVP mechanics. The PVP mechanics designed into the game are not simple or easy for the new player, especially one who expects to open the box, leave port, and jump into a fair, fun PVP fight.

The PVP system is fairly complex for the casual player (and I think FLS really blew it here), PVP flags, who can join battle instances, ships that are automatically PVP flagged, red circles, outer red circles, invisible group members, invisible ships, OS cluttered with agro NPC's, Can't attack enemy nation ships unless contention, (after launch) Red circles cluttered with uber groups, etc. and all this happening at closing speeds on the OS that can approach 160 knots. The complexity should have been in the instance, not in the roll up or prep for the instance. That's what is sucking the fun out of the game for the new, casual PVP player.

BPLDR we know you have learned the game as it is, and you love it. I am happy for you, there are alot of folks who have been thru the beta who feel just like you do. You say FLS is not going to change it so deal with it and learn it. I would agree they are not going to change it.

I think the important issue is whether the new players coming on board will be willing to deal with it and learn it, or say screw it, it's just not fun, it's too confusing, it's not what I expected, so I'm outta here.

I don't know what FLS had hoped that the game would be, one for the masses or a niche game. I believe that if the mechanics stay as they are it's headed in the niche direction which could be all well and good for the vets who love the game as it is and FLS. I don't know.

I do think though that if we take an attitude toward new players that they need to learn it or leave it, you are pushing POTBS in the niche direction. These people have the right to complain in the hope that some changes are made. They want to love the game as much as you do, that's why they are complaining. I think intolerance towards the new players complaints is not good for anyone in the overall POTBS community.

I take your point, But any game has a learning curve, and I had to climb that (am still climbing it, to be fair) and I don't appreciate new players coming in here after a couple of weeks saying they want everything changed just because they haven't taken the time and effort to learn.

I'm not trying to push new players away, I'm trying to tell them: stop whining, and pay attention. This is how it works. It can work for you just as well it works for me. Too many people want an I-win button, too many people want a game that's easy to pick up and easy to master. This game *is* easy to pick up, but it's hard to master. Not everyone can be Nelson/Hornblower/Blackbeard in two weeks.

And as for being a niche game, I think this game can't be anything but. It's never going to be WoW that's for certain, it's more of an Eve Online (and the two games share a lot of similarities, you'll find a lot of Eve exiles here). Although I think this game can be bigger than Eve because it's much more forgiving.

[johnnyjet]

I take your point, But any game has a learning curve, and I had to climb that (am still climbing it, to be fair) and I don't appreciate new players coming in here after a couple of weeks saying they want everything changed just because they haven't taken the time and effort to learn.

I'm not trying to push new players away, I'm trying to tell them: stop whining, and pay attention. This is how it works. It can work for you just as well it works for me. Too many people want an I-win button, too many people want a game that's easy to pick up and easy to master. This game *is* easy to pick up, but it's hard to master. Not everyone can be Nelson/Hornblower/Blackbeard in two weeks.

And as for being a niche game, I think this game can't be anything but. It's never going to be WoW that's for certain, it's more of an Eve Online (and the two games share a lot of similarities, you'll find a lot of Eve exiles here). Although I think this game can be bigger than Eve because it's much more forgiving.

Ok, That's a good post and I do see your point too, I think we both want only good things to happen for the game. I do enjoy learning the strengths and weaknesses of the different ships, wind placement, etc. and the many various strategies involved that the game can offer. That is fun, especially when you can see some success by using that knowledge.

I don't want to start another argument on this, we beat it to death, but I think the new players are happy with alot of things about the game and eager to learn. There's a segment of dedicated PVPr's though that are struggling with the mechanics. Some they do need to learn and some I think FLS needs to improve on. For me personally I don't have any problems with PVP inside the instance. What is bothering me is the setup prior to going into the instance. The PVP grouping mechanics, the way ships can enter your instance, the PVP flags, the OS speed, stealthed ships, groups just hanging out in the circle, somehow doesn't feel right. Maybe it will grow on me and maybe FLS will try to improve that aspect of the game if it's getting enough attention. Anyway we'll agree to disagree about that small portion of a great game.

Thanks for your good post.

[bpdlr]

What is bothering me is the setup prior to going into the instance. The PVP grouping mechanics,...

People need to learn how to form up in OS prior to joining battle. Hell, AoA is constantly practising this, even in PvE groups. And we think we've almost worked it out. However, it's a random element I'm prepared to live with, because at the end of the day, if it's done even half wrong, you should still be able to make the most of the situation you find yourself in. Run, or take out someone on the way down to Davey Jones.

.... the way ships can enter your instance...

OK, half the people on here want more time so their friends can join the fight. The other half want less time so they can have the fight they picked and not have other enemies spoil their effort. 60 seconds is a balance, maybe an arbitrary one but one that works equally for both sides.

...the PVP flags...

These work as intended. It's just that people don't understand how they work. OK, here it is: if you voluntarily put on the voluntary PvP flag, you are volunteering yourself to be open to attack by anyone. I can't make it any clearer. There's a recurring theme in that statement, let's see if people catch on.

...the OS speed...

I'm not aware of any issues with OS speed. Small ships travel faster than big ships, but not as fast as they used to. PvP flags give you 10% more speed as do some outfittings.

...stealthed ships...

Ooh, those nasty people stealthing around and surprising you. Hmm, but they can't attack if you're not flagged or not in a red circle, so....

groups just hanging out in the circle

Better than groups hanging out on the edge of the red circle, IMHO. What's wrong with this? Please explain.

[texaspacific]

I take your point, But any game has a learning curve, and I had to climb that (am still climbing it, to be fair) and I don't appreciate new players coming in here after a couple of weeks saying they want everything changed just because they haven't taken the time and effort to learn.

I'm not trying to push new players away, I'm trying to tell them: stop whining, and pay attention. This is how it works. It can work for you just as well it works for me. Too many people want an I-win button, too many people want a game that's easy to pick up and easy to master. This game *is* easy to pick up, but it's hard to master. Not everyone can be Nelson/Hornblower/Blackbeard in two weeks.

And as for being a niche game, I think this game can't be anything but. It's never going to be WoW that's for certain, it's more of an Eve Online (and the two games share a lot of similarities, you'll find a lot of Eve exiles here). Although I think this game can be bigger than Eve because it's much more forgiving.

well some people who were in the closed and open beta still dont like the pvp options available.. successfull games like eve give players options (EVEn by giving no options at all letting people do what they want and how they want it).. right now the options are 1) run 2) sink 3) get a group.. but it does not give me the option to have 1 on 1 fights when i want them - 6v6 system makes people group.. its good! but some people dont want to group all the time.. but they like the game and need that option (moreover i dont think all of the fights in the real carribean were 6v6 or 6v1, most of them actually were 1v1 or 1v2). Its a pirate game.. not "we'll force you get a group" game..

[bpdlr]

well some people who were in the closed and open beta still dont like the pvp options available.. successfull games like eve give players options (EVEn by giving no options at all letting people do what they want and how they want it).. right now the options are 1) run 2) sink 3) get a group.. but it does not give me the option to have 1 on 1 fights when i want them - 6v6 system makes people group.. its good! but some people dont want to group all the time.. but they like the game and need that option (moreover i dont think all of the fights in the real carribean were 6v6 or 6v1, most of them actually were 1v1 or 1v2). Its a pirate game.. not "we'll force you get a group" game..

You can't always get what you want... I've managed to go out, solo and flagged, and get 1v1s. A lot of the time I get jumped by gank squads, but I just run. I don't want some stupid "1v1" flag that means I have to wait around for someone with the same flag, I want to take the chance and be able to pick the fight I want, and run from the rest. If someone out there wants a 1v1 I'm sure they'll make their presence known.

[FryaDuck]

Its a pirate game.. not "we'll force you get a group" game..

Actually it is a Nationals conquest game that has Pirates in it as a nation. Conquest of the Burning Seas isn't as catchy as Pirates of the Burning Sea for a title. Although everything can be done solo, though not at the same time, it all can be done better and easier as a group.

Even FPS games, everyone of them, can get you into a 6 v 1 fight. Life isn't fair, tough luck suck it up or leave.

[Sildan75]

It's all well and good wanting a 1v1 option but there are just so many factors that need to be considered to implement such a thing. There are a lot of potential exploits that I can name off the top of my head..

1v1 Gankers - level 50s attacking level 15s
Class advantages - Pirates are the king of 1v1. I dont want to hear any arguments about this. similar ship, same skill level, a pirate will never lose. The result will be a stalemate or a win. You will just see a huge amount of pirates 1v1 flagged and little else. NOs have no place 1v1 unless they're either outclassing their opponent shipwise or on a suicide run. This applies to FTs too, although Privateers are a closer match.

Bones circle idea sounds reasonable, but again this gives pirates a distinct advantage. If a group of 6 makes a run to the inner circle, they can all be picked off 1v1 by a group of 6 pirates which gives them the advantage again.

For the record, I do not think that pirates are overpowered at all. It is absolutely frustrating fighting against one because they have so many bloody tools to use, but that is the advantage they have for not being able to capture and hold towns and not getting the ability to build SOL later in the game.

A lot of people have already stated the obvious, choose the right ship and outfittings, spec, and it is all but impossible to be ganked. In the beta I remember an encounter where we tried to 'gank' a lancer cutter who must have been speed/range outfitted. He basically kept upwind of our cerberuses/2nd refits and could have pretty much kept us in the instance indefinately if he wanted to. Another encounter was chasing bone around the place. We tried to engage him about 4 times with my group, with 2 tackler boats. We could never catch him and in the end we had to just stop engaging him and let him run around solo.

You cannot expect to run around in a big slow powerful ship and not be ganked.
The way the game is as far as pvp is pretty much fine at the moment. There are still numerous bugs in the game that i'd rather see devs working on than pandering to people who dont want to take the time to learn the ins and outs.

BTW Bone, I was part of that group of BDM in the 5v6 fight outside sisal tonight. You guys played very well and left us no choice but to call the game a stalemate and leave. Your line and discipline protecting wounded ships was first rate. We have some work to do methinks.

[bonelizzard]

Although the idea is better than some I've seen, it does have a problem. It basically allows the pirate to pick his target (the poor lightly armed FT) without having to worry about the escort. The only counter to this would be to pull the pirate into an instance first. But, is that really a fun way of playing the game for either side?

What I'd prefer is removing the 60 second entry timer for Pirate PvP. That would still allow grouped ships within 10 miles of each other to join in, but still give pirates the possibility of catching a straggler in a 1v1 situation.

This would be solved by giving a group corridors they can use to get into the middle. If the FT is in a grp then he is probably expecting a fight, any inconvenience caused by wind direction should not be too drastic.

[Valna]

I have a suggestion, why don't we all try the game as it's designed before we suggest design changes? I played beta and fought in numerous small engagements, in fact I'd say 6v6 was the exception not the rule. Of course there were a few ganks in there, but that's life. The pre boarding period is not a true indication of what pvp will be like in this game. It's not always easy or even possible to get a full group together to escort some freetrader's maize shipment. It simply will not happen. Be patient, pick your targets carefully, and most of all play smart.

I'll freely admit this game is not the kindest to the solo pvper, but honestly any game with unrestricted (or in this case semi-unrestricted) pvp is going to cater to group pvpers.

Jack Simple proved it is completely possible to solo pvp in contention zones, and did it with much success. Don't give up on it because the seas were full of gank squads the last two weeks, pvp zones change things.

[Net-Zao]

I like the idea of 1v1 flags.

[cwaugh]

The best way to do this would be to have 1 v 1 "rooms" for both ship combat and avcom.