Look, just make it so PvP can only group with PvP, please

[Deckeon]

People are totally exploiting this now.

People able to effectively even ATTACK while hiding behind the NPvP flag.

Is this working as intended? If so, you don't want people to get flagged, there is no reason for it, the slight bonus for OS movement...maybe. All it takes is a few thoughts about just how weakling it is to hide behind a nPvP flag and yet still get to participate in PvP at your leisure.

Gank packs are fine - as long as everyone is flagged.

Enough.

Either you cannot join a group unless everybody is flagged the same or make it the same as whatever the leader is FOR AS LONG AS THEY ARE GROUPED WITH HIM. No changing the PvP flag while grouped.

Good?

[Zotto]

because if they were all flagged you would have won?

[Spinnaker Sam]

Enforcing PvP grouping still doesn't prevent 5 ungrouped players from masking their PvP flagged friend. Also the TAB key will still reveal the hidden player.

[Deckeon]

lol nice try. I've not lost a PvP fight yet with my pirate(i've run away though - even from PvP dissimilar flagged packs) and lost one time as a level 3 FT with nothing in his cargo.

Losing does not bother me. People PvPing without a flag bothers me.

[Deckeon]

Enforcing PvP grouping still doesn't prevent 5 ungrouped players from masking their PvP flagged friend. Also the TAB key will still reveal the hidden player.

So? Then it's a 1 Vs 1 fight. You really think 5 (or even one) player is going to waste his time, not getting to fight?

[Spinnaker Sam]

So? Then it's a 1 Vs 1 fight.

No. The unflagged people can still join in the instance after you've attacked the red ship. That hasn't changed.

[Zotto]

i'm just trying to understand your objection. you told us what happened - one guy flagged, other guys unflagged hiding him - but i dont know why you think its bad.

the flagged guy was ambushing other flagged guys and then his friends would jump in to help.

seems like a good way to pick a fight in your favor.

[Deckeon]

i'm just trying to understand your objection. you told us what happened - one guy flagged, other guys unflagged hiding him - but i dont know why you think its bad.

the flagged guy was ambushing other flagged guys and then his friends would jump in to help.

seems like a good way to pick a fight in your favor.

Oh for chrissakes I will edit that part out, I hate how people on the forums pick out minor details. I just want people flagged for PvP if they are going to PvP. For the sake of trying to make this *crystal* clear: This is PvPing as far as flag mechanics go, OUTSIDE REDCIRCLES.

[Deckeon]

No. The unflagged people can still join in the instance after you've attacked the red ship. That hasn't changed.

omg /suicide

[Zotto]

sigh

i'll help you.

your objection seems to be that it is unfair for unflagged players to participate in flagged pvp because it makes it much harder for other flagged players to properly calculate the risk they are facing.

are those unflagged guys just sailing around doing their happy, harmless pve? or are they secretly grouped with a flagged guy, and they are all going to dogpile me any moment?

you never know. and i think that is exactly the point. when you turn your pvp flag on, you sail around never knowing where the danger might come from. everyone is a potential combatant.

and you. dont. care.

because you are one pvp flagged eye patch motor boater.

no. holds. barred.

pelotas-to-the-wall, esse!

and the devil take "proper calculation of risk". you like the danger.

[EMTsNightmare]

Actually i believe his complaint was that HE attacked a guy that was PVP flagged and then got ganked by his 5 buddies.

In which case...it's your problem you were too stupid to realize the 5 ships hanging out with him were you know....with him.

[Deckeon]

Ok one more time as simple as I can make it...take whatever imaginary situation is in your heads - OUT.

YOU SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN PVP(OUTSIDE THE REDCIRCLES) WITHOUT BEING PVP FLAGGED.

That is it. How can you disagree with that?

(no I didn't attack and get burned, no i've not fallen victim...yet, it just BUGS me)

[AxilX]

This should be obvious. If you have not enabled your PvP flag, you have not exposed yourself to risk, why then should you be given the reward of being allowed to attack, and participate in an attack against. people who have? Honestly, is there any benefit whatsoever to allowing unflagged combatants? Or is this just the typical fanboi "if it's in the game, it must be awesome!" garbage.

[Zotto]

i tried to explain it, but that hasn't stopped your volcanic outgassing.

roleplayers want pvp that is nice and tidy. everyone doffs their hat, bows, throws down a challenge in an affected foreign accent. and zomg the numbers better be even and clearly visible beforehand zomg.

truly good pvp is unpredictable and messy, and you have no taste for it.

[Deckeon]

This should be obvious. If you have not enabled your PvP flag, you have not exposed yourself to risk, why then should you be given the reward of being allowed to attack, and participate in an attack against. people who have? Honestly, is there any benefit whatsoever to allowing unflagged combatants? Or is this just the typical fanboi "if it's in the game, it must be awesome!" garbage.

Thank you.

[MajorChaos]

This should be obvious. If you have not enabled your PvP flag, you have not exposed yourself to risk, why then should you be given the reward of being allowed to attack, and participate in an attack against. people who have?

So, you're saying that if you are flagged as PVP and are cruising along and I happen to see you, and I'm not PVP flagged, then I can't and shouldn't be allowed to attack you? Horse Pucky. The whole reason they enabled that flag was so that you could/would take the risk of being jumped by anyone, whether they are flagged or not.

It is the same as if a pirate (or anyone) was sailing an invalid ship. It's auto PVP flagged, meaning anyone can attack it.

If you don't want to be randomly attacked by another player, don't set the pvp flag.

Some people will set the flag because 1) they want to pvp, 2) they want to pvp and don't want to get aggro'd by the NPC's and 3) they've no idea what they are doing.

[McClellan]

I must say I agree with the OP. I have my PvP flag turned on and I don't really mind getting attacked by unflagged people, but I do have one objection and that is - tactics. The current mechanics not only makes it impossible to asess the risk, but also to

a) surprise anyone
b) EVER be in a proper wind-wise position

For example, I ran into a non-flagged ship today and naturally, could not attack it. It kept running from me as long as I was upwind. As soon as I broke off and ended up downwind, it turned and tried to chase me, obviously thinking to attack now that the positioning was in his favor.

Predictable.

I believe half of the engagement is proper positioning. But when it comes to the unflagged guy, you are always going to be the one in a poor position since they can pick and choose when to initiate combat. Doesn't sound too "wild, messy and unpredictable", just unfair.

Also think about this: if only PvP flagged people could fight on the OS out of the Circle, there could be no exploit.
The current system has exploits.

Need be said more?

[xTekx]

i tried to explain it, but that hasn't stopped your volcanic outgassing.

roleplayers want pvp that is nice and tidy. everyone doffs their hat, bows, throws down a challenge in an affected foreign accent. and zomg the numbers better be even and clearly visible beforehand zomg.

truly good pvp is unpredictable and messy, and you have no taste for it.

/agree this statement

[xTekx]

So, you're saying that if you are flagged as PVP and are cruising along and I happen to see you, and I'm not PVP flagged, then I can't and shouldn't be allowed to attack you? Horse Pucky. The whole reason they enabled that flag was so that you could/would take the risk of being jumped by anyone, whether they are flagged or not.

It is the same as if a pirate (or anyone) was sailing an invalid ship. It's auto PVP flagged, meaning anyone can attack it.

If you don't want to be randomly attacked by another player, don't set the pvp flag.

Some people will set the flag because 1) they want to pvp, 2) they want to pvp and don't want to get aggro'd by the NPC's and 3) they've no idea what they are doing.

/agree with this also. I like how you have to "think" about the fights and not just rush in guns blazing. If the OP had actually studied the situation and used that situational awareness then he would have seen the buddies of the PvP guy he attacked.

[xTekx]

I must say I agree with the OP. I have my PvP flag turned on and I don't really mind getting attacked by unflagged people, but I do have one objection and that is - tactics. The current mechanics not only makes it impossible to asess the risk, but also to

a) surprise anyone
b) EVER be in a proper wind-wise position

For example, I ran into a non-flagged ship today and naturally, could not attack it. It kept running from me as long as I was upwind. As soon as I broke off and ended up downwind, it turned and tried to chase me, obviously thinking to attack now that the positioning was in his favor.

Predictable.

I believe half of the engagement is proper positioning. But when it comes to the unflagged guy, you are always going to be the one in a poor position since they can pick and choose when to initiate combat. Doesn't sound too "wild, messy and unpredictable", just unfair.

Also think about this: if only PvP flagged people could fight on the OS out of the Circle, there could be no exploit.
The current system has exploits.

Need be said more?

We're you a pirate in a captured ship?

[Deckeon]

/agree with this also. I like how you have to "think" about the fights and not just rush in guns blazing. If the OP had actually studied the situation and used that situational awareness then he would have seen the buddies of the PvP guy he attacked.

Learn to read.

(no I didn't attack and get burned, no i've not fallen victim...yet, it just BUGS me)

[Jimmy Crackskull]

I completely agree with the OP on this. It's obviously an oversight or a bug that would allow non PVP ships the right to uncosentualy attack another player.


Actually i believe his complaint was that HE attacked a guy that was PVP flagged and then got ganked by his 5 buddies.

In which case...it's your problem you were too stupid to realize the 5 ships hanging out with him were you know....with him.


If those 5 other ships were non PvP, how are you to know they are actualy ninja flagged PvP?

[McClellan]

We're you a pirate in a captured ship?

Yes I was, why?

Oh, and I just now read the comment about roleplayers wanting PvP to be nice and predictable - that is simply not true. I am an avid roleplayer and in fact if I had it my way, the entire OS would be a pirate PvP area. I say pirate PvP and not Factional area not because I play a pirate but because historically speaking various nations could not attack other nation's ships unless the had a Letter of Marque, ie. were privateers.

But since all-out PvP is not everyone's cup of tea, what we roleplayers want is PvP that is as immersive as possible and un-attackable ships "creeping up" on me even though I saw them coming on the horizon is not immersive at all.

[Deckeon]

I think FLS, and certainly all REAL PvPers would want more people to flag. Currently there is only reason to flag if you are busy traveller(or impatient), or you are the one guy in the 6 man gank squad who's job is to initiate the PvPing.

[Cik]

sigh

i'll help you.

your objection seems to be that it is unfair for unflagged players to participate in flagged pvp because it makes it much harder for other flagged players to properly calculate the risk they are facing.

are those unflagged guys just sailing around doing their happy, harmless pve? or are they secretly grouped with a flagged guy, and they are all going to dogpile me any moment?

you never know. and i think that is exactly the point. when you turn your pvp flag on, you sail around never knowing where the danger might come from. everyone is a potential combatant.

and you. dont. care.

because you are one pvp flagged eye patch motor boater.

no. holds. barred.

pelotas-to-the-wall, esse!

and the devil take "proper calculation of risk". you like the danger.

Right. Suspense and unpredictability sells. This is what will sell this game if PvP isn't trivialized and dumbed down any more than it is. Otherwise, if I wanted to be able to have a game about pirates bend to my will and where there is mundane predictability abound, and where I can hit the reset button, I'd still be playing sid meier's pirates.

[Spinnaker Sam]

I completely agree with the OP on this. It's obviously an oversight or a bug that would allow non PVP ships the right to uncosentualy attack another player.
No it is not an oversight or bug. The devs intentionally created this PvP rule for a segment of the population that wants to be attackable by ANYONE, ANYWHERE. If you don't want to be attackable by anyone, anywhere then this PvP flag system wasn't developed for your style of play. This is for the hardcore PvPers who enjoy that level of danger. In this regard the developers knew exactly what they were doing and exactly what segement of the gaming community it was aimed at. Maybe at some later date they will add more options to the PvP flagging system. But, for now it is a system for the hard core, attack me with everything you got crowd.

[Endar]

yeah its dumb.. 1 person in your group is pvp flaged, they all should be flaged

[Terramist]

I have a question... If you have the, situation spoken of earlier, of 4 players not flagged and 1 player flagged and you attack the flagged player and the other 4 players then attack you... Are they now flagged PvP?

[PandaRuns]

I want all the cry babies to understand how the flag works. It's not that hard to understand. It opens you up to all players. It says, I can be attacked by players. It doesn't say that you can only be attacked by flagged players. The point is anyone can attack you because they are players. It is a PvP flag. Player vs. Player. A player attacked you while you basically allow them too. Don't want it to happen? Travel in numbers or don't wear the flag. Also in 5 days contention opens up where you can freely attack unflagged players in the red circle.

[Endar]

"Also in 5 days contention opens up where you can freely attack unflagged players in the red circle."

mostly its sit 20 miles out from port waiting for a good solo target..

[PandaRuns]

Yup, you could do that. Anyone can, maybe that solo target will have 5 friends to run in when the battle starts too.

[Spinnaker Sam]

I have a question... If you have the, situation spoken of earlier, of 4 players not flagged and 1 player flagged and you attack the flagged player and the other 4 players then attack you... Are they now flagged PvP?

I could be wrong on this, but I do believe that anyone that enters the instance will be flagged as PvP when they exit. That would include attackers and defenders.

[bpdlr]

I could be wrong on this, but I do believe that anyone that enters the instance will be flagged as PvP when they exit. That would include attackers and defenders.

Interesting, this needs clarification. If a group of unflagged players joins a battle initiated by a flagged player on another flagged player, do the non-flagged players get the PvP Aggression flag?

[Cik]

Interesting, this needs clarification. If a group of unflagged players joins a battle initiated by a flagged player on another flagged player, do the non-flagged players get the PvP Aggression flag?

No they don't. Working as intended.

[Cik]

I think FLS, and certainly all REAL PvPers would want more people to flag. Currently there is only reason to flag if you are busy traveller(or impatient), or you are the one guy in the 6 man gank squad who's job is to initiate the PvPing.

Okay...so let me think about this. What is the down-side for every player needing to be flagged if they want to get involved with port battles and end-game? Risk/Reward, community engagement, replayability, knowing a little bit more about the danger at OS, right? Why should I be forced to play the way 1 flagged player is in a 6-player group that deceitfully have 5 non-flagged team members? It forces the hand of the majority, the more casual players.

Okay...make it so. FLS when will you fix this bug?

[Deckeon]

Okay...so let me think about this. What is the down-side for every player needing to be flagged if they want to get involved with port battles and end-game? Risk/Reward, community engagement, replayability, knowing a little bit more about the danger at OS, right? Why should I be forced to play the way 1 flagged player is in a 6-player group that deceitfully have 5 non-flagged team members? It forces the hand of the majority, the more casual players.

Okay...make it so. FLS when will you fix this bug?

No, please do not bring in port battles(red circles) into this. This topic has ZERO to do with this. Flagged PvPing on the OS - that is all.

[Deckeon]

I want all the cry babies to understand how the flag works. It's not that hard to understand. It opens you up to all players. It says, I can be attacked by players. It doesn't say that you can only be attacked by flagged players. The point is anyone can attack you because they are players. It is a PvP flag. Player vs. Player. A player attacked you while you basically allow them too. Don't want it to happen? Travel in numbers or don't wear the flag. Also in 5 days contention opens up where you can freely attack unflagged players in the red circle.

I believe you are wrong. I have never ever been attacked by a non flagged player - always a flagged player must initiate the attack.

[bpdlr]

I believe you are wrong. I have never ever been attacked by a non flagged player - always a flagged player must initiate the attack.

Just because you have never been attacked by a non-flagged player doesn't meant they can't attack you. They just chose not to.

PvP flag on means you can be attacked by *anyone*. (Except NPCs, theoretically.)

[Deckeon]

Just because you have never been attacked by a non-flagged player doesn't meant they can't attack you. They just chose not to.

PvP flag on means you can be attacked by *anyone*. (Except NPCs, theoretically.)

Wow I did not know that, I guess my point is moot then. That is really stupid in my opinion. Well there is ZERO point in flagging then.

Nothing personal, but i'm going to need a Dev to confirm this or someone to point out a FAQ or Dev Quote to confirm this.

[Cik]

No, please do not bring in port battles(red circles) into this. This topic has ZERO to do with this. Flagged PvPing on the OS - that is all.

No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No

You can't have one set of PvP rules for inside and outside the red circle. It's the same issues.

Also, no one should be able to turn off PvP flags outside their nation port, but should be able to continue to turn on in any port.

[Jimmy Crackskull]

I want all the cry babies to understand how the flag works. It's not that hard to understand. It opens you up to all players. It says, I can be attacked by players. It doesn't say that you can only be attacked by flagged players. The point is anyone can attack you because they are players. It is a PvP flag. Player vs. Player. A player attacked you while you basically allow them too. Don't want it to happen? Travel in numbers or don't wear the flag. Also in 5 days contention opens up where you can freely attack unflagged players in the red circle.

This is un true. I tried this last night. I was unflagged and solo. I found a solo fagged brit and tried to attack him but could not. That means even though you are flagged does not mean you can be attacked by anyone at any time.

[EMTsNightmare]

were you in a fallback ship? Fallbacks can't start a fight.

[bpdlr]

Wow I did not know that, I guess my point is moot then. That is really stupid in my opinion. Well there is ZERO point in flagging then.

Nothing personal, but i'm going to need a Dev to confirm this or someone to point out a FAQ or Dev Quote to confirm this.

Zero point in flagging? I disagree.

For FTs or other traders, it is a risk: I can run faster on the OS and avoid NPC aggression, but I risk being attacked by players.

For some, it is a badge of honour: I am flagged, fight me if you dare! (But also, sometimes: Watch out for my 5 buddies waiting stealthed/out of range ;) )

For myself, it is a dare: catch me if you can! But it's also a way of sticking the finger to all the crybabies who say "Whaaa! You attacked me when I was flagged, not fair!"

[Jimmy Crackskull]

You can't have one set of PvP rules for inside and outside the red circle. It's the same issues.

Also, no one should be able to turn off PvP flags outside their nation port, but should be able to continue to turn on in any port.

Red circles are indeed a diferent set of PVP flag rules.
if you enter a red circle not flagged you are PVP. leave the red circle you are no longer PVP.
If you enter red circle PVP you are still PVP. Leave red circle you are still PVP.

This thread is not about contention pvp, it is about the rule that allows non flagged people to join with a flagged person and participate in PVP as if they are flagged. The issue is there is no indication that these non flagged are grouped with a flagged and are allowed to PVP. This sets up ninja gank squads.

Say you and a friend are flagged and looking to fight and you see 1 PVP flagged opponent. A fight in your favor? Wrong! The other 5 unflagged boats just meandering around are actualy flagged PvP by proxy of being grouped with the flagged guy, but they dont have the crossed sabers over there ships. It is your responsability to assume avery player in the area around a flagged player is actually flagged. So instead of a 2 vs 1 your favor it is now a 2 vs 6 there favor.

The Original Poster wants Everyone grouped with 1 or more flagged players to be displaying the crossed sabers. This is not unreasonable.

[Jimmy Crackskull]

were you in a fallback ship? Fallbacks can't start a fight.

I'm lev 21 that fallback ship is long gone.

[bpdlr]

I'm lev 21 that fallback ship is long gone.

Then you must have been doing something really stupid.

Anyone can attack a person flagged with the Voluntary PvP flag. Anyone except those in fallback ships, or NPCs (theoretically!).

I know this for a fact because a number of times since the 7th I have been attacked by un-flagged players.

[Jimmy Crackskull]

Then you must have been doing something really stupid.

Anyone can attack a person flagged with the Voluntary PvP flag. Anyone except those in fallback ships, or NPCs (theoretically!).

I know this for a fact because a number of times since the 7th I have been attacked by un-flagged players.

You were attacked by an unflagged player that was grouped with a flagged player that could have been sitting invulnerable at a port anywhere on the OS map. This is another topic that has yet to be brought up.

An unflagged player cannot attack a flagged player unless he is flagged by proxy. Also a proxy flagged player can attack another proxy flagged player.

Are we beginning to see how twisted this can get?

[Cik]

Red circles are indeed a diferent set of PVP flag rules.

My point being that there is no reason for their to be. Edit: Posted a re-thought version several down.

[Deckeon]

Red circles are indeed a diferent set of PVP flag rules.
if you enter a red circle not flagged you are PVP. leave the red circle you are no longer PVP.
If you enter red circle PVP you are still PVP. Leave red circle you are still PVP.

This thread is not about contention pvp, it is about the rule that allows non flagged people to join with a flagged person and participate in PVP as if they are flagged. The issue is there is no indication that these non flagged are grouped with a flagged and are allowed to PVP. This sets up ninja gank squads.

Say you and a friend are flagged and looking to fight and you see 1 PVP flagged opponent. A fight in your favor? Wrong! The other 5 unflagged boats just meandering around are actualy flagged PvP by proxy of being grouped with the flagged guy, but they dont have the crossed sabers over there ships. It is your responsability to assume avery player in the area around a flagged player is actually flagged. So instead of a 2 vs 1 your favor it is now a 2 vs 6 there favor.

The Original Poster wants Everyone grouped with 1 or more flagged players to be displaying the crossed sabers. This is not unreasonable.


Sigh, thank you for your post and support, but crossed sabers just means they are "looking at you", not that you are flagged or they are flagged.

We NEED a FAQ for PvP Flagging rules. I could not find one. Many people in this thread need to read it, before further commenting.

Can we get a DEV to weigh in on being about to attack flagged players without being flagged? Please. I cannot find a real answer(from a dev or FAQ) on this.

[bpdlr]

You were attacked by an unflagged player that was grouped with a flagged player that could have been sitting invulnerable at a port anywhere on the OS map. This is another topic that has yet to be brought up.

An unflagged player cannot attack a flagged player unless he is flagged by proxy. Also a proxy flagged player can attack another proxy flagged player.

Are we beginning to see how twisted this can get?

Really, I don't understand where you are getting all this from. This is not how it works.

Let me repeat:

If you are PvP flagged, you can be attacked by anyone.

(Except fallbacks, NPCs (theoretically))

I really am quite prepared to be proven wrong, but in my experience since Open Beta this has always been the case.

EDIT: if you are on Blackbeard and not a Pirate, PM me to check this. We can meet at a location of your choosing, you alone and not flagged, me alone and flagged. And you can attack me, I promise. If you want, I'll also promise not to sink you :)

[Deckeon]

Zero point in flagging? I disagree.

For FTs or other traders, it is a risk: I can run faster on the OS and avoid NPC aggression, but I risk being attacked by players.

For some, it is a badge of honour: I am flagged, fight me if you dare! (But also, sometimes: Watch out for my 5 buddies waiting stealthed/out of range ;) )

For myself, it is a dare: catch me if you can! But it's also a way of sticking the finger to all the crybabies who say "Whaaa! You attacked me when I was flagged, not fair!"

My Ft gets no bonus to movement(99 on OS both ways) when i'm using good wind and currents. Took the flag off for him there is no point.

[Deckeon]

Really, I don't understand where you are getting all this from. This is not how it works.

Let me repeat:

If you are PvP flagged, you can be attacked by anyone.

(Except fallbacks, NPCs (theoretically))

I really am quite prepared to be proven wrong, but in my experience since Open Beta this has always been the case.

No buddy you must prove you are right. Where is the FAQ quote or DEV quote saying this? My experience is NO ONE unflagged can initiate the attack...their flagged buddy can though if they are grouped.

[bpdlr]

No buddy you must prove you are right. Where is the FAQ quote or DEV quote saying this? My experience is NO ONE unflagged can initiate the attack...their flagged buddy can though if they are grouped.

See my edit.

[Deckeon]

Someone can probably confirm this before tonight, and I can confirm anytime I want tonight by trying to do it to any flagged player. I really don't care to convince *You*. You must convince me, your position is weak.

[Cik]

I edit my own opinion:

1. Where ever and when ever a player in a group has their flag on, all members upon joining have their flags automatically turned on by the game.
2. Flags can only be turned 'off' in your nations port.
3. Flags are not automatically turned off upon leaving a flagged group (see #2).
4. Players cannot be invited into groups when in an instanced battle.

[Deckeon]

I edit my own opinion:

1. Where ever and when ever a player in a group has their flag on, all members upon joining have their flags automatically turned on by the game.
2. Flags can only be turned 'off' in your nations port.
3. Flags are not automatically turned off upon leaving a flagged group (see #2).
4. Players cannot be invited into groups when in an instanced battle.

I like it.

[bpdlr]

Someone can probably confirm this before tonight, and I can confirm anytime I want tonight by trying to do it to any flagged player. I really don't care to convince *You*. You must convince me, your position is weak.

Oh sorry, I thought we were trying to clear up a confusion here. I didn't realise this was an exercise in flexing your e-peen, Oh Great One with your Strong Position!

[Jimmy Crackskull]

EDIT: if you are on Blackbeard and not a Pirate, PM me to check this. We can meet at a location of your choosing, you alone and not flagged, me alone and flagged. And you can attack me, I promise. If you want, I'll also promise not to sink you :)

I would like to know for sure from a controled situation what the PVP attack rules are, since nothing official is documented. The prema guide simply states to the effect if you want to PVP you have to enter a red zone or be flagged PVP. I saw 0 reference to unflagged people being proxy flagged by a group member being flagged.

To hook up with you on Blackbeard I will have to create a national and aquire a sacrificial ship. I take it your board name is your in game name?

[Cik]

I like it.

Right, and it's map/system-wide, regardless of whether you are OS or port battle.

[Cik]

I saw 0 reference to unflagged people being proxy flagged by a group member being flagged.

Guys...let me put this to bed...group members are NOT proxy flagged when a member of that group is flagged as it is today. Which is why I propose;

1. Where ever and when ever a player in a group has their flag on, all members upon joining have their flags automatically turned on by the game.
2. Flags can only be turned 'off' in your nations port.
3. Flags are not automatically turned off upon leaving a flagged group (see #2).
4. Players cannot be invited into groups when in an instanced battle.

[Jimmy Crackskull]

I edit my own opinion:

1. Where ever and when ever a player in a group has their flag on, all members upon joining have their flags automatically turned on by the game.
2. Flags can only be turned 'off' in your nations port.
3. Flags are not automatically turned off upon leaving a flagged group (see #2).
4. Players cannot be invited into groups when in an instanced battle.


This would be the sensable, non confusing set of rules. I would go as fare to do what every PvP/carebear game does.... add a 15min-2hour change over timer so a player can't just go carebear escape on a whim.

I'm pretty sure these rules are the way the devs ment it to be. I think the way it is now is either an oversight or a bug. Because stealth flagging is just wrong on so many levels.

[Cik]

This would be the sensable, non confusing set of rules. I would go as fare to do what every PvP/carebear game does.... add a 15min-2hour change over timer so a player can't just go carebear escape on a whim.

Very reasonable add, then.

1. Where ever and when ever a player in a group has their flag on, all members upon joining have their flags automatically turned on by the game.
2. Flags can only be turned 'off' in your nations port.
3. Flags are not automatically turned off upon leaving a flagged group (see #2).
4. Players cannot be invited into groups when in an instanced battle.
5. Once PvP flag is turned off from your nations port (mission clicked 'accept'), it actually goes into effect 15 minutes from the point of accepting the turn-off.
6. Once PvP flag is turned off from your nations port (not 'effectively/actually off' but once you click 'accpet' mission'), it can not be turned back on until it is 'effectively/actively off'.

[bpdlr]

To hook up with you on Blackbeard I will have to create a national and aquire a sacrificial ship. I take it your board name is your in game name?

Yes, as in my sig.

[Jimmy Crackskull]

Yes, as in my sig.
I just realised tells don't work cross nation.

[Captain Indigo]

I think FLS, and certainly all REAL PvPers would want more people to flag. Currently there is only reason to flag if you are busy traveller(or impatient), or you are the one guy in the 6 man gank squad who's job is to initiate the PvPing.

It sounds like you want your own little PvP system not unlike the hardcore RPer's that want walls and constraints around theirs.

PvP Flag ON = Ultimate MMO Risk

Nothing more, nothing less. If you don't like it, turn it off or find a carebear friendly game.

[Broom]

Guys...let me put this to bed...group members are NOT proxy flagged when a member of that group is flagged as it is today. Which is why I propose;

1. Where ever and when ever a player in a group has their flag on, all members upon joining have their flags automatically turned on by the game.
2. Flags can only be turned 'off' in your nations port.
3. Flags are not automatically turned off upon leaving a flagged group (see #2).
4. Players cannot be invited into groups when in an instanced battle.

/signed

Linna

[Matt Madman]

I edit my own opinion:

1. Where ever and when ever a player in a group has their flag on, all members upon joining have their flags automatically turned on by the game.
2. Flags can only be turned 'off' in your nations port.
3. Flags are not automatically turned off upon leaving a flagged group (see #2).
4. Players cannot be invited into groups when in an instanced battle.

I was attacked by a non-flagged player who was using this group pvp exploit the other night. These rules need to be implemented because it is being abused.

/signed

Matt TheMadman - Bonny

[bpdlr]

I was attacked by a non-flagged player who was using this group pvp exploit the other night. These rules need to be implemented because it is being abused.

/signed

Matt TheMadman - Bonny

You had your PvP flag on and someone attacked you? THE HORROR!

This really needs to be cleared up. Someone National on Blackbeard, please PM me.

[Deckeon]

It sounds like you want your own little PvP system not unlike the hardcore RPer's that want walls and constraints around theirs.

PvP Flag ON = Ultimate MMO Risk

Nothing more, nothing less. If you don't like it, turn it off or find a carebear friendly game.

Read the whole thread...carefully. Thanks.

[SwENSkE]

Didn't bother to read through thiswall of text.

I only have this much to say:

- consensual PvP is bulls...
- IMO everybody should be PvP-flagged everywhere except for a few (noob) regions

[De Mollesley]

Didn't bother to read through thiswall of text.

I only have this much to say:

- consensual PvP is bulls...
- IMO everybody should be PvP-flagged everywhere except for a few (noob) regions

Why do you say it is BS?
Many, not me, but many others dont actually have much interest in PvP.
I dont see how you are at all inconvenienced by others who dont wish to PvP.

[NameTry2468]

sigh

i'll help you.

your objection seems to be that it is unfair for unflagged players to participate in flagged pvp because it makes it much harder for other flagged players to properly calculate the risk they are facing.

are those unflagged guys just sailing around doing their happy, harmless pve? or are they secretly grouped with a flagged guy, and they are all going to dogpile me any moment?

you never know. and i think that is exactly the point. when you turn your pvp flag on, you sail around never knowing where the danger might come from. everyone is a potential combatant.

and you. dont. care.

because you are one pvp flagged eye patch motor boater.

no. holds. barred.

pelotas-to-the-wall, esse!

and the devil take "proper calculation of risk". you like the danger.

REAL MEN OF GEEEEENIUS!!!

[Trobon]

I am so confused by what some people are saying. Are there seriously people here who say that it's ok for a person to get the rewards of PvPing without the risks involved? I mean why bother turning on your flag? A small speed boost? The possibility of NPCs not attacking you? So basically PvP flag is for those who want to not fight. Because if I want to PvP then there's no reason why I shouldn't just go out, find someone with the PvP flag on and wait until I can get into the perfect place to fight them. Not to mention I can assess the situation without any risk of being attacked.

[PandaRuns]

ORRR wait until next Tuesday when ports go into contention. That's a pretty easy fix.

[Kamui]

This thread is not about contention pvp, it is about the rule that allows non flagged people to join with a flagged person and participate in PVP as if they are flagged. The issue is there is no indication that these non flagged are grouped with a flagged and are allowed to PVP. This sets up ninja gank squads.

Say you and a friend are flagged and looking to fight and you see 1 PVP flagged opponent. A fight in your favor? Wrong! The other 5 unflagged boats just meandering around are actualy flagged PvP by proxy of being grouped with the flagged guy, but they dont have the crossed sabers over there ships. It is your responsability to assume avery player in the area around a flagged player is actually flagged. So instead of a 2 vs 1 your favor it is now a 2 vs 6 there favor.

The Original Poster wants Everyone grouped with 1 or more flagged players to be displaying the crossed sabers. This is not unreasonable.


If only all responces were this succinct and clear. I agree.

Look at it this way, the PvPer is flagged knowing he may get the crap beat out of him. No problem. But what about the NON PvP flagged person? He has no risk. He WANTS no risk. What he wants is a very easy, effortless, and SAFE kill. He's like the 'Great White Hunter' in the old Tarzan movies. You know the guy. He's the one walking in the middle of the long line of carriers and beaters boasting about his great skill. When the beaters (who are actually taking the most risk and often get gobbled by a lion or stomped by an elephant) find an animal the Great White Hunter aims his rifle (which was carried by someone else) and, with all the leisure time in the world (the animal is, after all, busy chomping on some poor black guy) takes the shot. He then leaves the carcass to be skinned and mounted by other people and heads back to camp to sip expensive whiskey while expounding upon his bravery and trying to get into the pants of the young lady Tarzan will inevitably come to save.

I think what the OP is asking is, if people want to engage in the risk of PvP then they SHOULD be flagged for it. I see nothing wrong with that. But then again, I'm not a Great White Hunter who lets other people take all the risk for him.

I edit my own opinion:

1. Where ever and when ever a player in a group has their flag on, all members upon joining have their flags automatically turned on by the game.
2. Flags can only be turned 'off' in your nations port.
3. Flags are not automatically turned off upon leaving a flagged group (see #2).
4. Players cannot be invited into groups when in an instanced battle.

From your fingers to the Devs ears. I'd add, "No player can enter a PvP fight if he was in port when it started". Dunno if that can be coded though.

[Gaunthor]

Not sure what to think on that one really.

In one hand:
If you allow only PvP players to access PvP fight then the possible result will surely having more PvP flagged players in the open seas and will also remove the exploit of having Non-PvP flagged surronding you for better spawn on battle map.

In the other hand:
If you make it so only flagged PvP can enter battle, in order to join a PvP fight one of your group member is in you'll have to be flagged PvP and have another exploit on your hand. You'll get cut off by an enemy attacking you. Your friend will be left alone fighting 4-5 ship while you try to sink the running away speed boat that stalled you and the rest of your group.

One solution would be to have a close formation follow mode. One thing I would like is make NPC's another collour on the Local map when I enable PvP mode.(I know I am dreaming)

Randall Keane

[Theodrak]

This has to be the most uninformed thread i have ever seen.

Someone saying ppl in a group with a flagged pvp'er should "all bear the crossed sabres"
uh...crossed sabres means they are targeting you...not that they are flagged. Flagged status is represented by an icon under your name that is red and contains a small "vs".

PvP flagged players can be attacked by.....anyone of any other nation. There is no "stealth" abillity given to group members, they could attack you anyway.

I have attacked pvp flagged ships while in a group with 5 other ppl and none of us were flagged. In fact we often hunt for noobs who turn on their flags and dont realize we can attack them. Further, we often turn them all on and have one ship sit and wait for UNFLAGGED ppl to attack while the other 5 sit 70 miles away out of sight then rush in once the battle is started. Thats why the society is called: "Its a Trap" because, in fact....It is. I am a pirate and therefore unscrupulous. So stop complaining about phantom pvp grouping and just stop putting your flag on, or even better....go sail around without yours on and attack the noobs who go solo with theirs. But be careful cause when you do..for 45 seconds ANYONE in the area, flagged or not, from your side or theirs, can join the battle until the time is up or both sides achieve 6 ppl.

Tried, tested, approved....I pvp everynight: sometimes whole group flagged, sometimes some flagged/some not and sometimes none flagged. All depends on how we are trying to iniate it.

PS: My cannons said to tell you: "Hugs and Kisses"

[Gaunthor]

This has to be the most uninformed thread i have ever seen.

Someone saying ppl in a group with a flagged pvp'er should "all bear the crossed sabres"
uh...crossed sabres means they are targeting you...not that they are flagged. Flagged status is represented by an icon under your name that is red and contains a small "vs".



Most uninformed thread you have ever seen? Now hold on smarty pants. You think your mr. know all now? I don't care about any of your tactics and in fact if you were smart, you'ld keep them to yourself. If you where even smarter you would post your opinion on the subject and why.

Randall Keane

[Theodrak]

I did post my opinion and quite a few facts. Perhaps uninformed was the wrong word. Misinformed may have been better. It was said in this thread that "crossed sabres" over someones head meant they were pvp flagged. That is incorrect. If you see that over someone it means they are currently targeting you. I then explained what to look for to identify a flagged player. You can only ID a flagged player by targeting them and looking at the symbols under their name. This may have led to some of the confusion on the following point: Players who group with a flagged player are not "stealth flagged" or "flagged by proxy". Being misinformed on how to ID a flagged player could lead to this assumption though, as could the belief that only flagged players can attack flagged players. ANY PLAYER, flagged or no (grouped or no, for that matter), of an opposing faction may attack a flagged player. ANY PLAYER of either faction involved may enter a pvp battle within the first 45 seconds. After that time period the battle closes and noone else may enter. (and no, flares dont work in pvp) I stated the different ways, or tactics, in order to demonstrate this point. And as to those tactics, they are hardly unique nor am I taking credit for inventing them, so disclosing them really does me no harm. The Prima Guide advises that you should always check the surrounding area for friends of the enemy to ensure that you are not stepping into a trap, so its definately a known tactic. And so I do not think it was unintelligent to have talked about them.

Finally, I would like to state that I was in no way making an assessment of anyones mental accuity. I was not calling anyone dumb, just saying that they were very confused and misinformed of the facts.

[Undrsiege]

All this talk. The Flag is voluntary if you don't want to turn it on then don't, I'm pretty sure it gives you a warning or are you wasting all your time reading this post and not the warning when you enable your flag? The rules are simple yet someone always wants to try and say something is an exploit. If you don't like it <petition> but don't waste your time trying to fix something that is very easy fixed turn your flag off.

[Theodrak]

All this talk. The Flag is voluntary if you don't want to turn it on then don't, I'm pretty sure it gives you a warning or are you wasting all your time reading this post and not the warning when you enable your flag? The rules are simple yet someone always wants to try and say something is an exploit. If you don't like it <petition> but don't waste your time trying to fix something that is very easy fixed turn your flag off.

Certainly cant argue with the logic there lol

[garborg]

People PvPing without a flag bothers me.

Won't matter once PvP contension starts... you'll be looking out for people flagged not not.

[Kamui]

All this talk. The Flag is voluntary if you don't want to turn it on then don't, I'm pretty sure it gives you a warning or are you wasting all your time reading this post and not the warning when you enable your flag? The rules are simple yet someone always wants to try and say something is an exploit. If you don't like it <petition> but don't waste your time trying to fix something that is very easy fixed turn your flag off.

Well, at least it's obvious you didn't waste your time reading the post, since it has nothing to do with what you're talking about.

Theodrak, It's my understanding that if you're not flagged for PvP you can not initiate combat outside of the redzone. You claim it can happen. I'll have to wait for it to happen to me, or for a red name to tell me otherwise. If that is true, then there really is nothing to discuss; the OP was wrong. However, if the OP is right that non-flagged people are initiating PvP with flagged people while their flagged person is either safe in port or stealthed (and yes, you CAN be stealthed with the right sails) then it should be changed. If people want to PvP they should flick their PvP flags on. Not act like 'the Great White Hunter' and eliminate all risk from possible combat.

And just on the offchance you're about to lambast me for being uninformed because you said this and that and yadda yadda yadda...I'll have you know I'm the President of the United States and I'll have the Secret Service hunt you down and give you a wedgie. Is that true? Of course not. Wedgies are passe. But prove it. Or take my word for it. And um, if you're not willing to take MY word on something, then why should anyone here take your word? No offense meant, just sayin is all.






Legal disclaimer edited in: I'm not actually the President of the USA, nor am I affiliated with any government in any way. Above is for example use only. Void where prohibited by law. Taxes and fees may apply.

[bpdlr]

I've now changed my forum preferences to allow anyone to PM me. Doh!

Now waiting for a National on Blackbeard to PM me to arrange a meeting so we can test this non-flagged vs. flagged theory out.

[Deckeon]

I can't believe this. Last night I could not find a flagged player to try to attack while I was unflagged(pretty much making my point right there!). So I see don't know for certain if you can really attack a flagged player while you are unflagged.

CAN A DEV PLEASE CONFIRM THIS FOR US?

[Spinnaker Sam]

From your fingers to the Devs ears. I'd add, "No player can enter a PvP fight if he was in port when it started". Dunno if that can be coded though.
That is already in the game. When you exit a port there is a 60 second timer called "Preparing your Ship" which prevents you from entering an instance until it times out.


As far as needing a dev confirmation that non flagged players can attack flagged players. When you go to the Port Captain and select the Activate PvP Flag mission, the mission text tells you that you can be attacked by ANY Player. Which makes it clear that ANY player can attack you.

[Deckeon]

That is already in the game. When you exit a port there is a 60 second timer called "Preparing your Ship" which prevents you from entering an instance until it times out.


As far as needing a dev confirmation that non flagged players can attack flagged players. When you go to the Port Captain and select the Activate PvP Flag mission, the mission text tells you that you can be attacked by ANY Player. Which makes it clear that ANY player can attack you.

So why do gank packs always have at least one flagged player?

[Spinnaker Sam]

As it stands now the current PvP flag is not broken. It is working as intended and is meant ONLY for those people who are willing to accept the risk of opening themselves to attack by ANYONE. If you want to only be attackable by other flagged players this is not the system for you.

What I suggest to the devs is that they create another level of PvP flagging for the people who want to be attacked only by other flagged players. Since this is a less risky form of flagging it shouldn't have the same benefits. My choice would be to give this flag a speed boost, but still make them vulnerable to NPC attacks. Afterall, the main advantage of the current flag is the NPC invulnerability and I don't think a less risky form of flagging should get that advantage.

So instead of arguing about how the current flag is broken (it isn't) talk about how additional flagging systems can be added to increase PvP options. Keep in mind that they do need to work together as a complete system. Where each one is a viable option based upon how much risk a player wants.

[bpdlr]

As far as needing a dev confirmation that non flagged players can attack flagged players. When you go to the Port Captain and select the Activate PvP Flag mission, the mission text tells you that you can be attacked by ANY Player. Which makes it clear that ANY player can attack you.

Actually, this is the reason for the confusion. The mission text is ambiguous:

"Switching on your PvP flag makes it possible for you to fight other PvP-flagged players in the Open Sea, even while not within a PvP Hotspot. Any player may attack a foreign player who has the PvP flag set."

These two sentences contradict each other. The first indicates that the flag allows you to attack other flagged players. The 2nd says any player can attack you.

Dev or PM, I'm still waiting.

[bpdlr]

So why do gank packs always have at least one flagged player?

Your logic is flawed.

Reminds me of the joke along the lines of: a guy is holding an umbrella on a sunny day. Someone asks him, "Why are you holding an umbrella?" He replies, "It keeps the elephants away." "But there aren't any elephants in this country!" The man replies, "So it works then!"

[Asylumex]

I don't see what the big deal is here. When you're out group PvPing it's a boneheaded move to NOT throw on your flag. Not only do players travel slower without it, but they're attackable by NPCs. That's one of the best ways to get your group separated which is a big no-no in PvP.

You throw your PvP flag on because you're looking for PvP. Allowing only other flagged players to initiate combat doesn't help flagged PvPers get into PvP fights. The flag is working as intended and I have no interest in a change of flag mechanics because you find being attackable with your flag up 'unfair'.

When I'm out looking for PvP I don't care whether players bring it flagged or not, just as long as they bring it.

[Caldes]

The reason one person keeps their flag on in a 6 man group is to tempt non flagged people to attack the one guy, not notising the other 5 players 70 or so miles away. In essence- bait for a trap. Its along the same lines as a rat group having one person in a Dromedary while everyone else hangs about inconspicuously.

It also lets the group control, to an extent, the conditions of the engagement, which is a bit crucial.

And if you cant avoid NPCs, something is wrong(ie, you game is lagging, or you're lacking in situational awareness)

[Endar]

So why do gank packs always have at least one flagged player?


think you mean only 1 flagged player in group, its so none of his group can be attacked except him nor can his group be split by multiple opposing groups. also makes it seem to enemies that hes solo or small group so opposing soloers and small groups will attack.

[Cik]

...not notising the other 5 players 70 or so miles away.

Even without game environment or lag issues, say your sailing clean, chances of making it into the battle from 70mi away is slim to none.

[Deckeon]

As it stands now the current PvP flag is not broken. It is working as intended and is meant ONLY for those people who are willing to accept the risk of opening themselves to attack by ANYONE. If you want to only be attackable by other flagged players this is not the system for you.

What I suggest to the devs is that they create another level of PvP flagging for the people who want to be attacked only by other flagged players. Since this is a less risky form of flagging it shouldn't have the same benefits. My choice would be to give this flag a speed boost, but still make them vulnerable to NPC attacks. Afterall, the main advantage of the current flag is the NPC invulnerability and I don't think a less risky form of flagging should get that advantage.

So instead of arguing about how the current flag is broken (it isn't) talk about how additional flagging systems can be added to increase PvP options. Keep in mind that they do need to work together as a complete system. Where each one is a viable option based upon how much risk a player wants.

Mmmm kay, I consider myself a fan of PvP play , but that is screwed. Turning the flag off forever and Over and out...

[Caldes]

Even without game environment or lag issues, say your sailing clean, chances of making it into the battle from 70mi away is slim to none.


Really? We[LBT] cover 80 miles regularly when ambushing Rats. From dead stops. I don't see what's hard about it.

[bpdlr]

Mmmm kay, I consider myself a fan of PvP play , but that is screwed. Turning the flag off forever and Over and out...

"Whaaaa!"

[/me ducks flying toys]

[Captain Indigo]

Actually, this is the reason for the confusion. The mission text is ambiguous:

"Switching on your PvP flag makes it possible for you to fight other PvP-flagged players in the Open Sea, even while not within a PvP Hotspot. Any player may attack a foreign player who has the PvP flag set."

These two sentences contradict each other. The first indicates that the flag allows you to attack other flagged players. The 2nd says any player can attack you.

Dev or PM, I'm still waiting.

Those two sentences do not contradict each other.

The first sentence admits that you are able to fight other PvP-flagged players anywhere on the map, not just in the Red Circle.

The second sentence adds another consequence to turning on your flag: Any foreign player(PvP-flagged or not) can now attack you, just for having your flag on.

These two rules do not contradict or cancel the other out. They are actually quite clear and distinctive. If you don't like these rules, I suggest not turning the flag on.

You will all get very good at smelling out PvP traps as you grow in experience with the game. We did through Beta and you will too, post retail release. Hang in there, Open Sea contention will bring out the meat 'n potatoes of this game.

[bpdlr]

The first sentence admits that you are able to fight other PvP-flagged players anywhere on the map, not just in the Red Circle.

But that should not be a consequence of turning on your flag. If you can attack a flagged player when you are un-flagged (as I believe the case to be) then this text is misleading and contradictory.

If you don't like these rules, I suggest not turning the flag on.

You will all get very good at smelling out PvP traps as you grow in experience with the game. We did through Beta and you will too, post retail release. Hang in there, Open Sea contention will bring out the meat 'n potatoes of this game.

*sigh* flag on since the 7th, preaching to the converted, yada yada....

[Susua]

Zotto hit it on the money...

Maybe Im out in the area of where some of my society is farming High level NPC pirates, and 1 of our members is flagged and hunting real pirates.

Sorry, but I think we reserve the right to go assist our fellow member if he gets jumped by more then 1 player... hence us being able to assist him NON flagged.

Im gonna have to chalk this up to a QQ thread, and someone who dosent understand PvP.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for your thread.

[Trobon]

Zotto hit it on the money...

Maybe Im out in the area of where some of my society is farming High level NPC pirates, and 1 of our members is flagged and hunting real pirates.

Sorry, but I think we reserve the right to go assist our fellow member if he gets jumped by more then 1 player... hence us being able to assist him NON flagged.

Im gonna have to chalk this up to a QQ thread, and someone who dosent understand PvP.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for your thread.


Even if this is true 1/10th of the time most of the time it is utilized by people who are exploiting it. Also I can understand to an extent non-flagged players helping others. However, what I can't get is that there are people on here who think that it's ok that a non-flagged player should be able to initiate the attack. As I said earlier there is next to no reason to turn on your PvP flag then if you are someone who wants to PvP. With the flag off you would just be able to pick your battles and position before hand. The only benifit of the PvP flag is for FT then.

[Caldes]

Truth be told, we[LBT] have found our ambushes more successful with everyone PvP flagged. One lone chap in a sloop or some such wanders about in PC traffic till he gets jumped, then the rest of us, some 70-80 miles away, rush in and join in.

When only the bait was flagged, it was obvious to see the rest of our group on the radar, as we would appear blue (or whatever color people have for other PCs). With our flags on, we show up red, or at the very least, gray, on the radar and blend in with NPC traffic.

We also tend to sail in rather non descript colors for our ships, resulting in us appearing rather harmless from a distance unless tabbed to or moused over.

[NameTry2468]

Truth be told, we[LBT] have found our ambushes more successful with everyone PvP flagged. One lone chap in a sloop or some such wanders about in PC traffic till he gets jumped, then the rest of us, some 70-80 miles away, rush in and join in.

When only the bait was flagged, it was obvious to see the rest of our group on the radar, as we would appear blue (or whatever color people have for other PCs). With our flags on, we show up red, or at the very least, gray, on the radar and blend in with NPC traffic.

We also tend to sail in rather non descript colors for our ships, resulting in us appearing rather harmless from a distance unless tabbed to or moused over.
Yo dude, that's soo rough....you've turned the brutality of gank-baiting into a science! Impressive though! :p

[Caldes]

Well, at this point in the game, there's not much else to do. Economy is easy, and no one wants to waste missions not getting XP, so we sail around looking for fights, but when none are to be had, we make do. >_>

[Susua]

Ok, let me shed some light.. not gonna read ever post to see if this is confirmed or settled or not so here you go.


BLACK TALONS DO NOTHING BUT LOOK FOR PEOPLE FLAGGED WHEN WE ARE IN FACT NOT!

You do NOT need to be flagged in order to attack someone flagged. No exploit, no flaw, its simply saying if you want a fight, then anyone who dosent want to goto port and then come back out to find you can jump you.

This includes the ENTIRE group of UNFLAGGED members as well.

My society does it everyday. No Flag, and Still jump flagged people.

Want proof? Make a pirate and bring your aft down to the Bartica area on Blackbeard.. Ill send ya home on a dingy free of charge.

[Trobon]

Truth be told, we[LBT] have found our ambushes more successful with everyone PvP flagged. One lone chap in a sloop or some such wanders about in PC traffic till he gets jumped, then the rest of us, some 70-80 miles away, rush in and join in.

When only the bait was flagged, it was obvious to see the rest of our group on the radar, as we would appear blue (or whatever color people have for other PCs). With our flags on, we show up red, or at the very least, gray, on the radar and blend in with NPC traffic.

We also tend to sail in rather non descript colors for our ships, resulting in us appearing rather harmless from a distance unless tabbed to or moused over.

See this kind of thing I don't mind. I mean you are out there taking the same risks as everyone else. If someone comes up from behind and engages one of you who are not bait then things change for oyu and you adapt. If people attack from different sides you have to adapt. Basially your PvP group takes some risks. However, these groups are not taking risks. They are using a system that was designed to help PvPer who are flagged to get help and they are using it to enter PvP risk free and usually under their conditions only.

[Susua]

See this kind of thing I don't mind. I mean you are out there taking the same risks as everyone else. If someone comes up from behind and engages one of you who are not bait then things change for oyu and you adapt. If people attack from different sides you have to adapt. Basially your PvP group takes some risks. However, these groups are not taking risks. They are using a system that was designed to help PvPer who are flagged to get help and they are using it to enter PvP risk free and usually under their conditions only.


I totally agree to this to an extent. I see no reason to be flagged for PvP in British waters.. however, if were leaving our space, the flags go up welcoming people to bring it. Protecting my fellow Brits, shouldn't require me to flag myself. Hence the reason the non flag jumping is in place.

[Trobon]

I totally agree to this to an extent. I see no reason to be flagged for PvP in British waters.. however, if were leaving our space, the flags go up welcoming people to bring it. Protecting my fellow Brits, shouldn't require me to flag myself. Hence the reason the non flag jumping is in place.

And I do understand that believe me. I just want to know if there's no possible way to have this without the exploit. I can't honestly think of any off the top of my head, but I haven't given it time.

[Susua]

I wouldnt be so eager to fire the "exploit gun". Just because it can happen dosent always mean its an exploit. Perhaps, some people are just using it to their advantage.

But as of right now.. were stuck with it.. I guess adapt and overcome, or continue to die.

[Trobon]

I wouldnt be so eager to fire the "exploit gun". Just because it can happen dosent always mean its an exploit. Perhaps, some people are just using it to their advantage.

But as of right now.. were stuck with it.. I guess adapt and overcome, or continue to die.

Ok exploit may be to strong of a word, but the fact remains that is still being used in a manner that was unintended by the developers. It also detracts from people even wanting to go out with their flags on. Basically if it continues there will probably be far less people with their flag on and most PvP will be conquest only.

[Endar]

yep no reason to even have your pvp flag on atm unless you looking to get attacked

[Trobon]

yep no reason to even have your pvp flag on atm unless you looking to get attacked

Which means that no one looking to fight in PvP will have their flag on because then they have to fight on other people's terms not their own. The only reason to have a flag on is to be bait or if oyur a FT trying to get over OS quickly.

[bpdlr]

And I do understand that believe me. I just want to know if there's no possible way to have this without the exploit. I can't honestly think of any off the top of my head, but I haven't given it time.

What exploit, exactly? People not conforming to your arbitrary set of standards for engagement?

[Trobon]

What exploit, exactly? People not conforming to your arbitrary set of standards for engagement?

Again, as I said it was probably too much to call it an exploit. However, it is still creting an atmosphere where people don't want to turn on their flags because they can be attacked on someone's elses terms without the chance to fight on their terms. If less people turn on their flags then there will be less PvP outside of red circles which will mean less fun over all which I doubt any of us want.

[Red Legs]

Just have fun.

[Spinnaker Sam]

Ok exploit may be to strong of a word, but the fact remains that is still being used in a manner that was unintended by the developers.

I don't think you are giving the devs enough credit. I think they knew exactly what they were doing when they implemented this flag. They were appealing only to a certain segment of the PvP crowd who are willing to take this ultimate risk of being attacked by anyone, anywhere. It wasn't a flag for anyone who seeks a fair PvP fight. If you see this system as exploitive or being used against the spirit of the flag, then maybe this system wasn't meant to appeal to your style of play. The system isn't broken, your concept of what it should have been is flawed.

[PandaRuns]

I'd like to know the true intention of the PvP flag. lol

I'm pretty sure it's working just as it should.

[Terramist]

Here is a suggestion...

Make it so that you can only join a PvP fight if your flag was on before the fight began. For instance, if you have a group of 5 players sailing around and only one has his PvP flag on. If someone attacks the PvP player that has his flag on, his friends cannot join the fight because they did not have their PvP flag on when the fight started.

[bpdlr]

Here is a suggestion...

Make it so that you can only join a PvP fight if your flag was on before the fight began. For instance, if you have a group of 5 players sailing around and only one has his PvP flag on. If someone attacks the PvP player that has his flag on, his friends cannot join the fight because they did not have their PvP flag on when the fight started.

Thanks for your suggestion. Now let me make a suggestion to you: read the entire thread before posting.

[Terramist]

Thanks for your suggestion. Now let me make a suggestion to you: read the entire thread before posting.

And that means what?

[Jarvel]

I'm one of those that liked and appreciated how it worked in Asherons Call. That was the by far the best type of pvp flagging I've ever seen.

If you go red than it's a free for all, which is what most people want. If you aren't red, be jealous of the free for all or go red yourself..

The way it is here is just screwy to me.

:yar:

[Taer]

No it is not an oversight or bug. The devs intentionally created this PvP rule for a segment of the population that wants to be attackable by ANYONE, ANYWHERE. ... But, for now it is a system for the hard core, attack me with everything you got crowd.

The system is now set up to satisfy the "I love ganking" crowd... ganks have nothing to do with "hardcore" pvp ... Hardcore PvPers would enjoy a server where everyone who played was flagged 24/7, and there was no hiding behind the NPvP flag to wait until you could gank to flag people catering.

[Taer]

I edit my own opinion:

1. Where ever and when ever a player in a group has their flag on, all members upon joining have their flags automatically turned on by the game.
2. Flags can only be turned 'off' in your nations port.
3. Flags are not automatically turned off upon leaving a flagged group (see #2).
4. Players cannot be invited into groups when in an instanced battle.

I like this as well; I still do not understand why the developers wanted to encourage ganking in their design of the system .. Just seems very counter-productive to encourage nothing but gank-squad pvp.

[PandaRuns]

Ganking is a part of world PvP I think. Last I checked anyway. No one really wants to fight fair when there's plenty to lose especially later in the game. A slight change could help but really, it's not going to change the nature of ganking. A full PvP server with everyone flagged would allow more ganking to happen than it currently does. You honestly think because everyone is flagged that ganking would magically stop or decrease? It wouldn't. I'd have more incentive to do so if everyone was flagged and would enjoy doing so. lol, if and when I gank I'm not doing it to be fair. I'm doing it to sink your ***. I can care less if you think it's "fair" or "cowardice" at that point because overall I still have my ship and you don't. The solution is simple, either don't wear the flag or bring the numbers to do so.

[Taer]

As I said, Panda: the current system is set up to encourage nothing but a gank-squad environment ... and a full-flaged server would still have ganking .. I am not arguing that...

In the current environment, it is too easy to use the NPvP flag as a way to limit your own risk ... why would a serious PvPer flag at all? -- Only reason I can see a serious PvPer ever actually flagging in this environment is to bait ...

I am really interested in knowing the developers intent and purpose in encouraging a gank-squad pvp environment - to me it seems to be limiting and rather short-sighted to do so.

Especially when a goal of this system should be to encourage new players to PvP -- it won't phase experienced and jaded PvPers .. but the person new to PvP will be the one most discouraged and put-off by the way this works.

[bpdlr]

Hardcore PvPers would enjoy a server where everyone who played was flagged 24/7, and there was no hiding behind the NPvP flag to wait until you could gank to flag people catering.

What is this "NPvP flag" you talk about, and what's all this about catering?

If you're going to troll, please at least do it intelligibly.

I don't understand any of your posts. Are you playing the same game? In the game I play, there is a voluntary PvP flag that let's anyone attack *you*, it doesn't allow you to attack anyone else. I don't understand how a system that gives people the choice of whether to participate in PvP or not encourages ganking. The only ganking I've seen is people who aren't flagged attacking people who are. The people who are flagged chose to be flagged, and the people who are ganking are those who are taking advantage of this situation to try and get their PvP kicks - and often getting sunk themselves in the process.

You'll find a lot of them in these forums crying about how unfair the PvP system is.

[texaspacific]

What is this "NPvP flag" you talk about, and what's all this about catering?

If you're going to troll, please at least do it intelligibly.

I don't understand any of your posts. Are you playing the same game? In the game I play, there is a voluntary PvP flag that let's anyone attack *you*, it doesn't allow you to attack anyone else. I don't understand how a system that gives people the choice of whether to participate in PvP or not encourages ganking. The only ganking I've seen is people who aren't flagged attacking people who are. The people who are flagged chose to be flagged, and the people who are ganking are those who are taking advantage of this situation to try and get their PvP kicks - and often getting sunk themselves in the process.

You'll find a lot of them in these forums crying about how unfair the PvP system is.

noone is crying.. the system is fair for groups of 6 postis who stand near tortuga without pvp flag waiting for pvp flagged small groups.. after the fight these brave groups immediately jump into the port and take the flag they got by attacking humans off..

this system is fair for 5 postis waiting inside the port with a flagged bermuda sloop bait outside.. bait bermuda sloop gets attacked by a newbie bermuda sloop and in return newbie bermuda is sunk by 5 postis who come out of the port... fair? yes for some.. but not for most.

So please stop telling people about no crying in the red circle.. there are no red circles yet and people are actually not talking about red circles.. cos in the red circle EVERYONE is pvp flagged.


the author of the thread is right.. if you want to attack others you have to have pvp flag..

i would also add this
1) damage from pvp fight can be only repaired in port or by using patches (with all due cooldowns)..
2) no invisibility and invulnerability for ships coming out of PvP

[Hausmaster6000]

i would also add this
1) damage from pvp fight can be only repaired in port or by using patches (with all due cooldowns)..
2) no invisibility and invulnerability for ships coming out of PvP

To stop the 'ganking'?

are you serious?

This would just encourage people to sit outside of a battle and then **** up who ever come out. It would do nothing but make the problem even worse.

why would a serious PvPer flag at all?

Because I like to fight other players? Because someone somewhere needs to be flagged so I can? Because I'm not going to sail around for hours looking for the one flagged guy on my server?

There are lots of reasons, but one of them isn't because I want a fair fight.

[bpdlr]

noone is crying.. the system is fair for groups of 6 postis who stand near tortuga without pvp flag waiting for pvp flagged small groups.. after the fight these brave groups immediately jump into the port and take the flag they got by attacking humans off..

WAAAA! Small groups should not have flagged themselves, or should be able to run. The PvP Aggression flag is not something you can return to port and take off, it lasts for 5mins.

this system is fair for 5 postis waiting inside the port with a flagged bermuda sloop bait outside.. bait bermuda sloop gets attacked by a newbie bermuda sloop and in return newbie bermuda is sunk by 5 postis who come out of the port... fair? yes for some.. but not for most.

WAAAA! It's impossible to leave port and join a battle as you are debuffed with "Preparing Ship", added intentionally to stop this tactic. Besides, a 'Muda sloop should be able to out-run Postis.

So please stop telling people about no crying in the red circle.. there are no red circles yet and people are actually not talking about red circles.. cos in the red circle EVERYONE is pvp flagged.

the author of the thread is right.. if you want to attack others you have to have pvp flag..

i would also add this
1) damage from pvp fight can be only repaired in port or by using patches (with all due cooldowns)..
2) no invisibility and invulnerability for ships coming out of PvP

People don't have invulnerability when they leave a battle, they have Preparing Ship (so they can't immediately attack someone) and Ad-Hoc invis. So you would encourage people to be ganked as soon as they'd run from a fight?

Please, go away, and learn how to play the game. If you are going to hang out on the forums, at least read what more experienced players have written and don't just come here to cry about tactics that have been used on you that you haven't learnt how to counter.

I'd still like to know who's doing the catering...

[karkh]

I don't quite understand the issue with this. PvP in this game is meant to be in the red zones. They added the flagging abilty to give additional pvp for those who wanted it. If you don't want the extra pvp don't flag.

PvP is not meant to be "fair", it is kill or be killed. Anything other than that is a personal choice or style not to be inflicted on those doing it as intended.

If I set it up that I can be attacked, either by flagging myself, grouping with someone flagged, or entering the red zones, I will not complain if I get attacked.

Rules of the game.

[Taer]

What is this "NPvP flag" you talk about, and what's all this about catering?

If you're going to troll, please at least do it intelligibly.

I don't understand any of your posts. Are you playing the same game? In the game I play, there is a voluntary PvP flag that let's anyone attack *you*, it doesn't allow you to attack anyone else. I don't understand how a system that gives people the choice of whether to participate in PvP or not encourages ganking. The only ganking I've seen is people who aren't flagged attacking people who are. The people who are flagged chose to be flagged, and the people who are ganking are those who are taking advantage of this situation to try and get their PvP kicks - and often getting sunk themselves in the process.

You'll find a lot of them in these forums crying about how unfair the PvP system is.

Wow, a rant, from a normally rational and polite poster; must have hit a nerve there. I am sorry you failed to comprehend my posts; there are some really good remedial reading courses available .. I suggest you enroll in a couple.

Actually this system allows anyone's allies or nationals to enter PvP combat within an allocated time, involving two players, regardless if one or both were flagged to begin with ... because of this your rant is totally misleading.

If you care to actually discuss things and not rant, rephrase your post .. otherwise go cry on your Society's internal boards about how you can't understand simple English.

[bpdlr]

Wow, a rant, from a normally rational and polite poster; must have hit a nerve there. I am sorry you failed to comprehend my posts; there are some really good remedial reading courses available .. I suggest you enroll in a couple.

Actually this system allows anyone's allies or nationals to enter PvP combat within an allocated time, involving two players, regardless if one or both were flagged to begin with ... because of this your rant is totally misleading.

If you care to actually discuss things and not rant, rephrase your post .. otherwise go cry on your Society's internal boards about how you can't understand simple English.

OK, explain the following sentence:

"Hardcore PvPers would enjoy a server where everyone who played was flagged 24/7, and there was no hiding behind the NPvP flag to wait until you could gank to flag people catering."

I'm still wondering who's doing the catering. I could use something to eat right about now.

As for comprehending English, you need to re-read my post carefully. Have a dictionary handy if you must.

[Taer]

I don't quite understand the issue with this. PvP in this game is meant to be in the red zones. They added the flagging abilty to give additional pvp for those who wanted it. If you don't want the extra pvp don't flag.

PvP is not meant to be "fair", it is kill or be killed. Anything other than that is a personal choice or style not to be inflicted on those doing it as intended.

If I set it up that I can be attacked, either by flagging myself, grouping with someone flagged, or entering the red zones, I will not complain if I get attacked.

Rules of the game.

Hence the flagging ability in this game caters to the gank-squad pvp.

As I said before, I am really interested in knowing the developers intent and purpose in encouraging a gank-squad pvp environment - to me it seems to be limiting and rather short-sighted to do so.

Especially when a goal of this system should be to encourage new players to PvP -- it won't phase experienced and jaded PvPers .. but the person new to PvP will be the one most discouraged and put-off by the way this works.

[bpdlr]

Hence the flagging ability in this game caters to the gank-squad pvp.

This seems to be the basic assumption you are basing all your arguments on. Shall I repeat what I posted above using smaller words?

If you are flagged for PvP, you cannot attack someone who is not flagged. Someone who doesn't want to be ganked should not flag themselves for PvP, not should they attack someone who is flagged and has a group with them. Therefore, you cannot be ganked if you do not flag yourself for PvP.

[Taer]

OK, explain the following sentence:

"Hardcore PvPers would enjoy a server where everyone who played was flagged 24/7, and there was no hiding behind the NPvP flag to wait until you could gank to flag people catering."

I'm still wondering who's doing the catering. I could use something to eat right about now.

As for comprehending English, you need to re-read my post carefully. Have a dictionary handy if you must.

I don't need to reread your post .. what do you not understand about the above sentence? The word catering has more uses to it then you seem to have learned .. sorry if your hung-up on that ... maybe some research on your part would help you overcome the stumbling you are encountering.

[Taer]

This seems to be the basic assumption you are basing all your arguments on. Shall I repeat what I posted above using smaller words?

If you are flagged for PvP, you cannot attack someone who is not flagged. Someone who doesn't want to be ganked should not flag themselves for PvP, not should they attack someone who is flagged and has a group with them. Therefore, you cannot be ganked if you do not flag yourself for PvP.

I can see we are going to go around in circles, which is too bad. At this point we will just have to agree to disagree on choice of symantics and usage .. maybe later, I'll come back and attempt to discuss things with you, but as things are, this is not very productive.

[Rhaethe]

As I said before, I am really interested in knowing the developers intent and purpose in encouraging a gank-squad pvp environment - to me it seems to be limiting and rather short-sighted to do so.



From the beta forum archives ...

Rev comments on PVP Flag (http://archive.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?p=700503#post700503)

Hi, I'm a dev and I'm happy to comment. http://archive.burningsea.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif The PvP flag gives you a speed increase and makes NPCs ignore you, as others have pointed out. I guess we could also make it candy-coated and have it put money in your pocket every time you turn it on, but seriously, we think it offers very good benefits in addition to giving you more PvP and have no plans to change it further for launch.

Rusty Comments on ganking (http://archive.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?p=710910#post710910)

Tragically, this thread has run its course. I'll summarize our opinion on it again, and then put it out of its misery.

1) War is ganking. You attack where the enemy is weakest. It's not about having a fair fight, it's about winning. That's what our nation versus nation system is. As they say, no crying in the red zone.

2) War is only one kind of PvP. There are those players who want a more even competition, a more sportsman approach to the conflict. For these players, the answer is the upcoming Player Created Events system, which will allow you to create challenges for other players/groups to sign up and fight on pre-determined conditions. We have a lot of plans for this, and it's one of my beloved systems (cut for release - sob!) so I'm really looking forward to it.

[Taer]

From the beta forum archives ...

Rev comments on PVP Flag (http://archive.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?p=700503#post700503)



Rusty Comments on ganking (http://archive.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?p=710910#post710910)

Thank you for directing me to these threads, Raethe. Hopefully I will find the logic and reasoning I am looking for here.

[Cik]

I'm still interested in injecting some antibiotics into this steaming puss sore of a PvP fiasco system with:


1. Where ever and when ever a player in a group has their flag on, all members upon joining have their flags automatically turned on by the game.
2. Flags can only be turned 'off' in your nations port.
3. Flags are not automatically turned off upon leaving a flagged group (see #2).
4. Players cannot be invited into groups when in an instanced battle.
5. Once PvP flag is turned off from your nations port (mission clicked 'accept'), it actually goes into effect 15 minutes from the point of accepting the turn-off.
6. Once PvP flag is turned off from your nations port (not 'effectively/actually off' but once you click 'accpet' mission'), it can not be turned back on until it is 'effectively/actively off'.
7. No player may enter an already in-progress PvP battle if that battle has been established while a player was in port.

[Jimmy Crackskull]

It's just real discurraging to want to play OS PVP when non flagged people are allowed to attack flagged people.

People that are not PvP flagged are saying "I do not want to participate in PvP." That is exactly the way it should be.

[texaspacific]

It's just real discurraging to want to play OS PVP when non flagged people are allowed to attack flagged people.

People that are not PvP flagged are saying "I do not want to participate in PvP." That is exactly the way it should be.

agreed!!!.. no flag - no pvp outside the port pvp zone

[Elanimire]

Having 1 person flagged, and 5 others not flagged but ready to jump is essentially no risk PvP for the 5. All of the rewards, but none of the risk.

Of course the people crying about suggestions to change it are those who abuse it, and are in reality more carebear than the people who put up their flags.

Its quite simple really, if one person in a group is PVP flagged, everyone should be. That or Non - Flagged people cant join a pvp combat involving the flagged person.

Its not about looking to see if theres lots of people before you attack. Its about the 5 non flagged players of the gank squad sitting in the OS with no risk at all. If you want to PVP on the open seas at least be man enough to flag up.

Meh dunno why I bother really, the carebear gank squads will just flame.

[bpdlr]

I'm still interested in injecting some antibiotics into this steaming puss sore of a PvP fiasco system with:

1. Where ever and when ever a player in a group has their flag on, all members upon joining have their flags automatically turned on by the game.
2. Flags can only be turned 'off' in your nations port.
3. Flags are not automatically turned off upon leaving a flagged group (see #2).
4. Players cannot be invited into groups when in an instanced battle.
5. Once PvP flag is turned off from your nations port (mission clicked 'accept'), it actually goes into effect 15 minutes from the point of accepting the turn-off.
6. Once PvP flag is turned off from your nations port (not 'effectively/actually off' but once you click 'accpet' mission'), it can not be turned back on until it is 'effectively/actively off'.
7. No player may enter an already in-progress PvP battle if that battle has been established while a player was in port.

I don't see anything wrong with the system as it stands except for people not prepared to learn how it works. And it's pretty simple.

What is the point of (1) above if you have a group on Vent, who don't need to be "grouped" in-game but can still co-ordinate in-game? What is the point of (2) and similar ideas if you can simply transport back to a home port and turn off your flag, then transport back? And there is absolutely no point in (7) as the "Preparing Ship" debuff effectively rules anyone out of joining a battle unless it started after they left port.

[Elanimire]

I don't see anything wrong with the system as it stands except for people not prepared to learn how it works. And it's pretty simple.

What is the point of (1) above if you have a group on Vent, who don't need to be "grouped" in-game but can still co-ordinate in-game? What is the point of (2) and similar ideas if you can simply transport back to a home port and turn off your flag, then transport back? And there is absolutely no point in (7) as the "Preparing Ship" debuff effectively rules anyone out of joining a battle unless it started after they left port.


So what your saying is its OK for 5 out of 6 people to have risk free PVP? That they can be immune to being attacked but still attack other people?
They can get all of the rewards and fun with none of the risks?

No my friend that doesnt cut it. If you want to pvp and gank people fine - but everyone participating in that gank squad should be flagged. The only people who wouldnt want this are lamers who cant win a fair fight. If you could, why would you worry about being flagged? No you dont want a good fight, you want easy ganks. You my friend are a carebear through and through, even if you wont admit it to yourself.

[bpdlr]

Having 1 person flagged, and 5 others not flagged but ready to jump is essentially no risk PvP for the 5. All of the rewards, but none of the risk.

Of course the people crying about suggestions to change it are those who abuse it, and are in reality more carebear than the people who put up their flags.

It's obvious you would love this to be true, but frankly, you're projecting. I want the system to remain as it is, because it's simple. There is enough confusion from people new to the game about how this and that works, let's not add more layers of complexity to what is already a pretty difficult game to master.

Everyone moaning and wanting to add more "features" to the PvP system, is focussing on the people who are unflagged, and not focussing on the person who has chosen to flag himself. Just because you are unflagged doesn't mean you don't want PvP, it just means you don't want the risk of being attacked. Flagging yourself means that you accept the risk of people randomly attacking you.

Its quite simple really, if one person in a group is PVP flagged, everyone should be. That or Non - Flagged people cant join a pvp combat involving the flagged person.

Its not about looking to see if theres lots of people before you attack. Its about the 5 non flagged players of the gank squad sitting in the OS with no risk at all. If you want to PVP on the open seas at least be man enough to flag up.

Meh dunno why I bother really, the carebear gank squads will just flame.

Lol "carebear gank squads". Please, explain that one! That's like saying "humane murderers" or "humble politicians".

[bpdlr]

So what your saying is its OK for 5 out of 6 people to have risk free PVP? That they can be immune to being attacked but still attack other people?
They can get all of the rewards and fun with none of the risks?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Because this is the flagging system. If I want "even odds" PvP where I can see who is able to attack and who isn't I'll go make a red circle. You forget that flagging is only one aspect of PvP in this game. But flagging is the ultimate risk-takers way. If that scares you, DON'T FLAG! Go and sit on the edge of the red circle where you can pick and choose your targets and then rush in to make sure you get 1v1 or whatever it is.

No my friend that doesnt cut it. If you want to pvp and gank people fine - but everyone participating in that gank squad should be flagged. The only people who wouldnt want this are lamers who cant win a fair fight. If you could, why would you worry about being flagged? No you dont want a good fight, you want easy ganks. You my friend are a carebear through and through, even if you wont admit it to yourself.

LOL now you are making a fool of yourself. Please, lurk a bit more on these forums and find out who people are before you start mouthing off. Oh, and please look up what "carebear" means in terms of gaming culture, I think you'll find it means the opposite of what you seem to think it does.

[Elanimire]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Because this is the flagging system. If I want "even odds" PvP where I can see who is able to attack and who isn't I'll go make a red circle. You forget that flagging is only one aspect of PvP in this game. But flagging is the ultimate risk-takers way. If that scares you, DON'T FLAG! Go and sit on the edge of the red circle where you can pick and choose your targets and then rush in to make sure you get 1v1 or whatever it is.



LOL now you are making a fool of yourself. Please, lurk a bit more on these forums and find out who people are before you start mouthing off.

I dont care WHO you are if your in favour of any sort of non risk pvp you are a carebear. That is all.

[layton999]

A carebear is someone that fights without risks having one person PVP and the rest PVE jump in and attack single players is as risk free as the game can provide.

(don't have to point out that PVE are immune to being attacked because that is why they sit there unflagged) Carebear tactic. More risk free than normal PVE 6 on 1 my heroes.

Simple solution to this.

PVE is PVE unflagged can not attack players full stop.

If you don't like that then try PVE players can't join combat instances.

Now argue flame etc we all know why those that argue against this are argueing.



Layton

[bpdlr]

Now argue flame etc we all know why those that argue against this are argueing.

Actually, there is so little sense in anything you've posted that I'd find it quite hard to argue against it. But I think I know why some of you are arguing. Because you thought you'd look cooler with your PvP flag on, and then you got jumped, and now you're crying on the forums.

Please let me clear up the illusion you people seem to be under. "Carebear" is a term used to describe people who don't engage voluntarily in PvP, and want to protect other players from non-consensual PvP. The term you are looking for I think is "ganker", i.e. someone who will only attack other people if they are part of a much larger group.

When you've learnt how to insult people properly, and learnt how to play the game, please come back and then maybe we can take your posts seriously.

[Elanimire]

Actually, there is so little sense in anything you've posted that I'd find it quite hard to argue against it. But I think I know why some of you are arguing. Because you thought you'd look cooler with your PvP flag on, and then you got jumped, and now you're crying on the forums.

Please let me clear up the illusion you people seem to be under. "Carebear" is a term used to describe people who don't engage voluntarily in PvP, and want to protect other players from non-consensual PvP. The term you are looking for I think is "ganker", i.e. someone who will only attack other people if they are part of a much larger group.

When you've learnt how to insult people properly, and learnt how to play the game, please come back and then maybe we can take your posts seriously.

This from the carebear who sits there unflagged with no risk at all, till some poor noob comes along and they can gank him. Your basically saying I want pvp, but only if I can win. Doesnt get much more carebear than that.

[bpdlr]

This from the carebear who sits there unflagged with no risk at all, till some poor noob comes along and they can gank him.

Really, I think you need to get a bigger shovel. The hole you're digging for yourself isn't quite big enough yet!

[Elanimire]

Really, I think you need to get a bigger shovel. The hole you're digging for yourself isn't quite big enough yet!

Your only lieing to yourself. Tis ok you can go back to your risk free carebearing ways soon enough.

[deplorable]

Your only lieing to yourself. Tis ok you can go back to your risk free carebearing ways soon enough.

people who use the word 'carebear' in MMO's should be hanged, hopefully with the possibility of me watching it with popcorn. =)

[layton999]

So after beta and playing PVP all through beta and perboarding I turn on PVP just to be cool?

Ganking sucks, everyone knows it why argue? If you have to hide behind PVE in PVP to win then you are either a carebear or a ganker.

I am not saying that you do so. Know plenty of good PVP players. Dodge Viper for one is a very good player and has kicked my butt twice on his own without his friends lurking in the background to help.

What I said and have said in previous posts is that the tactic of a group of six people and only one PVP enabled is unfair and an exploit because the PVE people can't be engaged they sit there outside or around a port in relative saftey as there are six of them NPC isn't going to be a hassle is it?

We all know it happens and some groups do this time and time again just to win relatively risk free. A far as I and a lot of others are concerned this is a carebear tactic.
A. They are PVE flagged. Carebear.
B. They only engage when they can win. Carebear.

If they change the situation like they did with waiting on land until one of your group engages a ship and jump in then everyone will quit complaining. There will be people complaining about PVP because they flag just to avoid the NPC but then that is the risk when flagging. As a PVP player I don't want to take on 6 ships at a time when five of those ships are saying I don't want PVP so have not flagged. The French that come to Bartica on Roberts are usually grouped together with PVP flags on and we've had some good battles with them. However not everyone wants to risk losing so they use an exploit such as the PVE.

I love the game and have seen other games ruined because of exploits, mods and auto-farming.

The idea of turning PVE to PVE only is a good one. I wa