self destruct

[Mabsor]

not sure where im going with this idea, but hear me out :p

universal skill, on say, a 2 min "fire" time. ie, hit the button, 2 mins later, goes off

effects would be :
your ship is sunk, loses 1 Dur. you lose EVERYTHING that isnt nailed down, plus, say, 50% of your ammo, or something additional that isnt ... critical

would be a .. detrimental to self ability, but usuable if you REALLY dont want the other side to "win" in pvp.

i know it sounds insane, but was thinking more in the "lol theres 5 of us lets gank the solo guy", well now you would get nothing for your efforts, apart from losing some ammo - the main angle im working being it denies you a new boat, or marks of victory, or whatever.

might induce people to fight more... balanced ? the long firing time would mean you cant just use it as your about to lose, would have to be more obvious from an early point, and if you want to stop someone blowing up you would have to board them and win in the time, or whatever, so its not a 100% assured effect, and would have a warning notice like Flare does


as i said, just an idea, and its probably going to be widely unpopular with the ganking crew :p

[Myriam]

Everyone would use it when they feel they're losing. We'd have kamikaze ships everywhere.

It could be psychedelic but it's not historically accurate.

[bpdlr]

All you folks who feel you should spite your attackers when you get into a situation where you are outnumbered, please remember that the devs consider things like cargo dumping to be *griefing*. That is why they are changing the surrender system to allow dumping only after a 100% surrender is refused. Why then would they implement a skill that goes even further and denies the attacker anything at all?

If you have your flag on, or sail into a red circle, you can expect to be attacked, simple as that. I'm sure you'd prefer a "fair" fight but the fact is, it ain't gonna happen 90% of the time because this is war. People want Marks, or cargo, or simply to make you lose as much as possible to undermine your nation's economy.

If you want a *fair* fight, get a naval escort, but in the meantime, don't start crying because you got into an unwinnable position.

[Mabsor]

All you folks who feel you should spite your attackers when you get into a situation where you are outnumbered, please remember that the devs consider things like cargo dumping to be *griefing*. That is why they are changing the surrender system to allow dumping only after a 100% surrender is refused. Why then would they implement a skill that goes even further and denies the attacker anything at all?

If you have your flag on, or sail into a red circle, you can expect to be attacked, simple as that. I'm sure you'd prefer a "fair" fight but the fact is, it ain't gonna happen 90% of the time because this is war. People want Marks, or cargo, or simply to make you lose as much as possible to undermine your nation's economy.

If you want a *fair* fight, get a naval escort, but in the meantime, don't start crying because you got into an unwinnable position.

a- its not "WAR", its a "GAME" ergo meant to be fun


lots of people want to pvp, lots of people dont. lots of people who do will stop doing it if the loss outweights any sense of achievement, or fun, or anything else. so the longer the 6 man teams go around ganking all the solo people trying to get from A to B, the more those people are not going to bother. which is fine by me, but dont you dare post on here in 18 months whining that all the folks wont come pvp with you...

[bpdlr]

My point was valid. If you put your PvP flag on just to make OS travel more comfortable by having more speed and less NPC aggression, you also take the risk of being attacked by players. End of story. If you don't accept this risk, don't flag yourself. Is that clear enough?

[BlaxxSF]

My point was valid. If you put your PvP flag on just to make OS travel more comfortable by having more speed and less NPC aggression, you also take the risk of being attacked by players. End of story. If you don't accept this risk, don't flag yourself. Is that clear enough?

And please, just because you lost, don't start resorting to ad hominem because people won't pat you on the back and say "There, there, mommy will make it better for you".

/sign

The OP , just ask for an griefing Tactics.

[beltpouch]

The devs have recently revealed the new cargo dumping fix that will go into effect with build 1.2. In basic terms you will not be able to dump your cargo in combat. The only time your enemy won't get your cargo if he/she wins is if they refuse a 100% surrender, in which case the cargo is just lost to everyone.

An ability of this nature would completely undermine the new surrender changes. Therefore I really don't see any valid reason for such an ability to exist. This sorta sounds like someone is crying in the red circle (so to speak) and as we all know, there is no crying in the red circle.

[saevel]

The devs have recently revealed the new cargo dumping fix that will go into effect with build 1.2. In basic terms you will not be able to dump your cargo in combat. The only time your enemy won't get your cargo if he/she wins is if they refuse a 100% surrender, in which case the cargo is just lost to everyone.

An ability of this nature would completely undermine the new surrender changes. Therefore I really don't see any valid reason for such an ability to exist. This sorta sounds like someone is crying in the red circle (so to speak) and as we all know, there is no crying in the red circle.

I agree in not agreeing with the op, plus it wouldn't make sense having people going around blowing themselves up [tho it would be fun to see].

On a side not, where are the patch notes where the new surrender method is being implemented?

[beltpouch]

On a side not, where are the patch notes where the new surrender method is being implemented?

It's not in any patch notes yet. Here is a dev response in a thread yesterday that has the information:

Here's a (very rough) outline of how it works:

* Normally, you can't dump cargo in PvP combat.
* If you offer a 100% surrender, and that surrender is rejected, you are flagged to not give cargo loot.
* If you're flagged and defeated, the player defeating you gets none of your unsecured cargo. They still get marks and other rewards as usual, but your unsecured cargo is lost.

There are a bunch of edge cases and special circumstances that apply, but that's the basics.

This change is in the 1.2 build, so it's not going to be in at launch, or (probably) this month.

[Spinnaker Sam]

This is the sore loser mentality. "I can't win the fight so I'm going to make sure the winner doesn't get anything either." If you are losing a fight, be a gracious loser and allow the victor his spoils. That applies to whether it was a 1 vs 1 or a 6 vs 1. Cause you know that it will be a feature used in 1 vs 1 battles just as much as it would be in a 6 vs 1.

This game doesn't need to cater to the sore losers in the world.

I'm not part of a ganking crew and the idea is still disliked by me.

[Aeiedil]

As a freetrader I have to agree with the pirate, if you are moaning about getting boarded right now you must have your pvp flag on really, so it's your own damn fault. I have never so far got involved in a PvP fight when I didnt want to simply because when I don't want to pvp i keep my pvp flag off, and where possible stay out of pvp zones :P simple

[Aeiedil]

Oh a couple of small notes

1 : If such a mechanic was in the game, you were fighting an opponent, winning, and then they blew themselves up, would you be annoyed about all that wasted effort and ammo for no gain whatsoever?

[Danicia]

Hello all,

I've removed some forum PVP from this thread; you should save your PVP for in-game. Please remember the Potbs Forum Rules & Expectations:

No Flaming
While debate and discussion are encouraged, we will not tolerate rude or insulting posts, personal attacks or inflammatory posts of any kind.

No Trolling
Posting in a thread for the sole purpose of harassing a user or derailing / hijacking a thread topic is not allowed.

[dogstar]

Although there should be an option for fireships maybe. Tactically a very sound use of smaller ships to cause chaos. Good enough for the Spainish Amarda

Granted blowing your powder stores is a touch overkill, but not unheard of in the face of particually brutal pirates (given one origin of the term Jolly Roger....).

[layton999]

No, sorry but that would kill PVP. Would have to be a huge I mean huge penalty for this loss of all durabilty and level drop at least.

Layton

[Alienfreak]

Well i would like to see an option to set your own ship afire and thus destroying it. This is also historically correct.

But i wouldnt like to see having it any effect besides sinking you. And it should also destroy more of your inventory than the normal getting sunk for balance reasons.
Of course the enemy still gets MoV and cargo.

[Aeiedil]

The enemy would have to get no MoV for the same reason as no MoV is gained for sinking a ship outside of boarding - too open to farming

[warian]

Also, self destruct should DESTROY any enemy within 100 yards of you.

[Merad]

One point I should note is that so far, Players aren't bothering to accept surrenders. While I don't like the idea of self destructing ships, it isn't exactly "realistic" for every pirate you come across to sink you no matter how much you surrender. As the game is now it is more valuable to kill that durability than to take the cargo on a 'win the game' mentality. Especially when most players go for smaller, easier kills anyway. Ones that don't have much in the way of cargo to begin with.

Maybe a solution would be to force the acceptance of surrender at additional penalty to yourself.

[beltpouch]

One point I should note is that so far, Players aren't bothering to accept surrenders. While I don't like the idea of self destructing ships, it isn't exactly "realistic" for every pirate you come across to sink you no matter how much you surrender. As the game is now it is more valuable to kill that durability than to take the cargo on a 'win the game' mentality. Especially when most players go for smaller, easier kills anyway. Ones that don't have much in the way of cargo to begin with.

Maybe a solution would be to force the acceptance of surrender at additional penalty to yourself.

While at this point my personal policy is to always accept surrender I can understand why other's do not. They are giving up XPs and Marks of Victory when they accept surrenders :-)

[Archavious]

The enemy would have to get no MoV for the same reason as no MoV is gained for sinking a ship outside of boarding - too open to farming

I thought this was just a bug?

[garborg]

As it will be, if a 100% surrender is not accepted you are/will be allowed to destroy all your cargo if you choose to.

[Redrum]

Only sound use for such an ability to scuttle upon boarded would probably be for the lineships.

since the nations would do just about anything not to let it in the "wrong" hands.

*******************

Naval officer Skill:

"Tell davey jones i sent you"

Scuttles your Ship of the line, destroying it and killing everyone onboard.
upon activation the boarding enemys crew will be set to 0 with a debuff to crew and morale regeneration (something like -80% for 5 minutes)

Duration: 30 seconds

Initiative cost: 50

Cooldown: 2 hours

Reduces durability for the ship by 3 per activation.
(so no scuttling and hopping back into the action without risk)


****************

Historically accurate, pretty balanced with the current state of the game in mind.

Come to think of it, this actually sounds better when i typed it out, hope a dev sees this.

:)

[Tishlin]

Also, self destruct should DESTROY any enemy within 100 yards of you.

Exploitable much? The powder stores of a sloop are not going to even singe a frigate at 100 yards.

Hell, when L'Orient, a French 120-gun SOL, blew up at the Battle of the Nile it did no meaningful damage to any of the ships around it, or the British SOLs pounding her from within 100 yards.

[Aeiedil]

While at this point my personal policy is to always accept surrender I can understand why other's do not. They are giving up XPs and Marks of Victory when they accept surrenders :-)

I would accept surrenders at the start of a fight, however the one time I was in a fight where the opponent offered surrender, it was after I had boarded, failed, and managed to back off + demolish his sails.

After that long a drawn out fight, I wanted to finish the job really :) (that was a pretty evenly matched fight, he was higher level but i had a slightly stronger ship)

[Mabsor]

Only sound use for such an ability to scuttle upon boarded would probably be for the lineships.

since the nations would do just about anything not to let it in the "wrong" hands.

*******************

Naval officer Skill:

"Tell davey jones i sent you"

Scuttles your Ship of the line, destroying it and killing everyone onboard.
upon activation the boarding enemys crew will be set to 0 with a debuff to crew and morale regeneration (something like -80% for 5 minutes)

Duration: 30 seconds

Initiative cost: 50

Cooldown: 2 hours

Reduces durability for the ship by 3 per activation.
(so no scuttling and hopping back into the action without risk)


****************

Historically accurate, pretty balanced with the current state of the game in mind.

Come to think of it, this actually sounds better when i typed it out, hope a dev sees this.

:)

aah the joys of sensible input :D

something like that, but maybe.. non pvp for 10 mins debuff instead of losing Dur.
and you get "fined" by your government for it. so it costs you , say, 10k DBL to activate the skill, so you dont use it without good cause.
end result being it should hurt you , not a lot, but noticeably MORE than just losing the ship would.

[bpdlr]

Only sound use for such an ability to scuttle upon boarded would probably be for the lineships.

since the nations would do just about anything not to let it in the "wrong" hands.

*******************

Naval officer Skill:

"Tell davey jones i sent you"

Scuttles your Ship of the line, destroying it and killing everyone onboard.
upon activation the boarding enemys crew will be set to 0 with a debuff to crew and morale regeneration (something like -80% for 5 minutes)

Duration: 30 seconds

Initiative cost: 50

Cooldown: 2 hours

Reduces durability for the ship by 3 per activation.
(so no scuttling and hopping back into the action without risk)


****************

Historically accurate, pretty balanced with the current state of the game in mind.

Come to think of it, this actually sounds better when i typed it out, hope a dev sees this.

:)

Why all the bother? Why not just have an "I Win" button?

[SwENSkE]

It could be psychedelic but it's not historically accurate.

LOL???

First - this is no Simulator but an MMOG.
Second - it is VERY accurate. A lot of captains chose to sink their ships if heavily outnumbered to prevent the enemies from getting his ship and/or cargo!

And BTW - EVE (the most hardcore PVP game in the game universe) has such an option and no, it did not kill PvP in any way.

[Redrum]

Why all the bother? Why not just have an "I Win" button?

im going to just assume you didnt actually read it.

its an "i lose" button .

first, the ship is taken out of combat.

second, it incurrs a great cost to the captain/society since you can only use it once without building a new deed and refilling it. a sol isnt cheap.
maybe even reduce dur. to 1 when used, who knows.


id rather see that durability didnt exist, and ships were permanently destroyed when sunk, but that's just an old eve-player talking.


anyway, constructive input and suggestions will only serve to enhance the game, no matter what it is.

[Olblach]

Self destruct? Unless your crew is a bunch of fanatics they are going to mutiny and leave you on an island :o) Now you could have it if it was timed, like 5 minutes or so. But I'm against it.

[Mabsor]

Self destruct? Unless your crew is a bunch of fanatics they are going to mutiny and leave you on an island :o) Now you could have it if it was timed, like 5 minutes or so. But I'm against it.

i see what you mean. however

I board your ship
i take it

you and your crew are going to go where exactly ?

of course this all relies on the game mechanic "you lose, you 'die', you respawn"