Boarding combat vs ship combat? huh?

[Serj]

Why Am I spending 75% of my time pvping in the sea and fighting in avatar combat opposed to what i signed up for, ship combat? I don't see why boarding has to be so easy?? I mean comeon, lets be real here, boarding combat nullifys ship combat, and to be frank, avatar combat sucks. Not only is that dam "attack target" skill so stupid, it just doesnt make sense to go out in the open sea and not have 95% ship combat, as it is now the majority of players who want to win any sort of competitive battle will try to board you. Why have u designed pvp like this? And is this what you intended? More boarding combat then your actually revolutionary, strategic, fun, and fantastic ship combat??

[bothan_pirate]

Boarding defense outfittings, keeping your distance from attackers, not slowing below 6...all of these things will save you from being boarded.

[Serj]

yea but usually boarding players have faster ships, with i might add ALot less crew, but all it takes is a couple of grape shots..I'll adapt, sure, but dam, i dont want to be restricted to 1 strategy: start with grapeshot, then once hes immoblized heavy cannon balls for the kill..I seriously think boarding combat should be removed from pvp or made immensly difficult to board..

[ironxmortlock]

I completely agree Serj. It's fine in PvE but for PvP the avatar combat system must go.

[Claren]

Boarding defense outfittings, keeping your distance from attackers, not slowing below 6...all of these things will save you from being boarded.


Thanks for the tip, but that was not the question.

I agree with the OP.
Avatar combat could be used for land battles, if we get those some time.

As I said in some other thread. There are so many other games where we can wave sticks at eachother, and most of them are a lot better than POTBS at it. So if avatar combat becomes more important then ship battles I think many will choose another game with better avatar combat mechanics.

In POTBS we want to sail ships and exchange broadsides. Thats where this game shines.

[Hannothan]

Thanks for the tip, but that was not the question.

I agree with the OP.
Avatar combat could be used for land battles, if we get those some time.

As I said in some other thread. There are so many other games where we can wave sticks at eachother, and most of them are a lot better than POTBS at it. So if avatar combat becomes more important then ship battles I think many will choose another game with better avatar combat mechanics.

In POTBS we want to sail ships and exchange broadsides. Thats where this game shines.

Um yeah, I don't want to exchange broadsides with you. I'd much rather punch a few new holes in your stern :)

But yeah, boarding in pvp should only be able to be done when the ship being boarded has no sails and <20% crew IMO. That will give the one who does not want to be boarded time to react and adapt instead of just getting cut off, graped, and boarded.

[Endar]

agreed its far too easy to grapple and board

[bpdlr]

agreed its far too easy to grapple and board

Stunning contribution to the discussion.

Boarding is historically accurate, and available to both sides of any encounter, so for people to say it's too easy, too fast or too overpowered is plainly a cop out.

[Endar]

Stunning contribution to the discussion.

Boarding is historically accurate, and available to both sides of any encounter, so for people to say it's too easy, too fast or too overpowered is plainly a cop out.



umm do you have any idea how hard it was to get near enough to a ship and board it back then?

yesterday i grappled a ship at nearly 100 yards good luck doing that irl

[bpdlr]

umm do you have any idea how hard it was to get near enough to a ship and board it back then?

yesterday i grappled a ship at nearly 100 yards good luck doing that irl

Grappling range is 50 yards. Your contribution to this thread continues to amaze me.

[JoeDragon]

Stunning contribution to the discussion.

Boarding is historically accurate, and available to both sides of any encounter, so for people to say it's too easy, too fast or too overpowered is plainly a cop out.


Agreed. If you see that someone is lowering your crew preparing to board, there ARE consumables for that. Pirates have whole skill lines devoted to boarding, the Devs arent going to take it out because a few people arent willing to do it. Hell, Misha hates Av Com, but they still wont take it out.

I think it needs to be improved, not removed. I personally Love it, and it makes the game more complicated. You actually have to learn to be good at Ship vs Ship AND Avatar Vs. Avatar.

I do however believe that both ships need to be under 6 speed instead of just the ship initating the Boarding. This will make it a bit harder to actually get into the boarding combat, since you will have to start with the sails and in some cases it would be more appropriate to go broadside vs broadside.

[Caldes]

Grappling range is 50 yards.

Do ships come with grapple hook and harpoon launchers? Just curious.

[JoeDragon]

Do ships come with grapple hook and harpoon launchers? Just curious.


Yes you will always have those by default. But you can equip grappling cannon upgrades to give you a better chance to board.

[Caldes]

Ah, then that would explain a 50yd grapple range.

[Endar]

yeah your right about the 50 yards it just seems farther in combat, either way 50 yards is still pretty far.. go stand on a football field and see.

still doesnt change my opinion that its too easy especially at lower levels to grapple ships. especially when it comes to PvE vrs much larger ships

[Soba]

The real kicker is that I was told you only get Marks if you defeat a player in boarding. I just sunk a player and got no Marks. When I asked on Nation Chat, I was told Marks only are awarded if you board and defeat the player.

Great so I win but I really didn't "win". And to "win", I have to partake in a system I find underdeveloped and not very fun. Don't ask me to explain the logic behind this decision because I just don't see it.

[Caldes]

Your chances are lower, apparently, if you sink instead of board, for getting a MoV.

[Franz Von G]

The real problem is not in the boarding itself, but the fact that's actually the only strategy applied by ALL the game's classes, even if they are not designed for that; and not only every fight ends with a boarding (there's nothing bad with that, the surrender "skill" is there for a reason), but simply there's no other fight except boarding, and that makes the pvp quite boring (and really unrealistic). To put it simple, canister shots and langridge are too powerful: you need 10+ broadside of round shot to destroy a side armor, but you can wipe out his entire crew with just 3 canister shot wellplaced...
I really like the idea of open a boarding chance only if BOTH the fighters are slowed down 6 nodes

[Asmodeous]

I really like the idea of open a boarding chance only if BOTH the fighters are slowed down 6 nodes

That's how it works. If you're going 6 knots I'm not going to be able to board you if I'm going less than 6 knots, because you're going to be out of my range. I have to slow you down or stop you.

Me.

[Rhaethe]

but the fact that's actually the only strategy applied by ALL the game's classes, even if they are not designed for that

I think I might be a minority, but I honestly prefer simply blowing things up / sinking ships. I find learning the techniques (if that is what they are called) of being able to keep moving above 6 knots and consistently utilize all of my guns when possible to be more fun.

But again, I might just be wierd ;)

[bothan_pirate]

Thanks for the tip, but that was not the question.

I agree with the OP.
Avatar combat could be used for land battles, if we get those some time.

As I said in some other thread. There are so many other games where we can wave sticks at eachother, and most of them are a lot better than POTBS at it. So if avatar combat becomes more important then ship battles I think many will choose another game with better avatar combat mechanics.

In POTBS we want to sail ships and exchange broadsides. Thats where this game shines.

No it isn't the question, it's the answer.

If you don't want to get wet when it rains you use a raincoat or an umbrella. Same idea with being boarded. Use what you have to avoid it. It won't always work but it will help most of the time.

[Caldes]

Really, it would just be nice if my ship's DR applied to my crew as well-

An MC Bermuda Sloop, with a broadside of Cannister, knock off about 60 crew in one blast. Ridiculous? A little. But they're not really 'Dead', as crew regenerate (allbeit ever so slowly).

Same sloop can take down the crew of the 300 man Xebec to a reasonable boarding ready amount in 3 salvos. Kinda makes since- the crew is supposedly packed on the top deck, rather vulnerable, even if the Bermuda is a smaller ship.

Enter my 300 man..er... Frigate or whatever (Falcon? Defiant?). It takes the Sloop the same number of salvos to achieve the same effect, despite the fact that the crew on my Frigate would, proportionally, be mostly below decks, and would have the armor of my ship available to protect them from the AP shot. Yes, some of my crew would be knocked out of action, but it should not be the same amount as the more lightly armored Xebec with its more vulnerable crew (depicted, I assume by is lower hull armor and DR rating).
That's why it confuses me that the DR of ships is not applied to crew as well.

[SteveConnors]

I like boarding Combat, however I do find it's too easy to board.

I think it should be about 50% harder to kill crew

[Serj]

I only bring this topic up because it ruins the whole sea combat expierence for me, I love the combat mechanics for sea fighting, its wounderful, and I'd love to see more sea combat rather then more boarding combat...idk though, still early in the game to tell whats going to happend..

[Serj]

Really, it would just be nice if my ship's DR applied to my crew as well-

An MC Bermuda Sloop, with a broadside of Cannister, knock off about 60 crew in one blast. Ridiculous? A little. But they're not really 'Dead', as crew regenerate (allbeit ever so slowly).

Same sloop can take down the crew of the 300 man Xebec to a reasonable boarding ready amount in 3 salvos. Kinda makes since- the crew is supposedly packed on the top deck, rather vulnerable, even if the Bermuda is a smaller ship.

Enter my 300 man..er... Frigate or whatever (Falcon? Defiant?). It takes the Sloop the same number of salvos to achieve the same effect, despite the fact that the crew on my Frigate would, proportionally, be mostly below decks, and would have the armor of my ship available to protect them from the AP shot. Yes, some of my crew would be knocked out of action, but it should not be the same amount as the more lightly armored Xebec with its more vulnerable crew (depicted, I assume by is lower hull armor and DR rating).
That's why it confuses me that the DR of ships is not applied to crew as well.

Very good point, this makes no sense...a small ship should not want to board a larger ship with a much more massive amount of crew, it makes no freaking sense...

[Caldes]

Im not even talking about boarding. I'm talking about crew loss (which effects other things). Smaller ships can spare a couple blasts of AP shot to make my crew almost nil, debuffing my ship, when my larger ship shouldn't be as effected by it[AP shot]. DR for crew please.

[bpdlr]

The real kicker is that I was told you only get Marks if you defeat a player in boarding. I just sunk a player and got no Marks. When I asked on Nation Chat, I was told Marks only are awarded if you board and defeat the player.

Great so I win but I really didn't "win". And to "win", I have to partake in a system I find underdeveloped and not very fun. Don't ask me to explain the logic behind this decision because I just don't see it.

Marks should be awarded on boarding or sinking. They were bugged throughout Beta so you didn't get them on sinking, now they seem to be bugged on boarding too.

[Claren]

DR for crew please.

I second that. Armour should protect the crew as well, ofcause.

I wouldn't think shooting grapeshots at a 2 or 3 decker would have much effect at all in real life. You could just as well throw potatoes at them.

I think it would work if the amount of armour gave equal protection for the crew.
With 100% armour you can't kill crew at all with anti personnel shots. At 50% armour you would get 50% efficiency from your anti personnel shots, and so on. Anti personnel shots would only be effective on heavy damaged ships. Then we would be guaranteed some sea battles before the boarding can take action. Much more fun!

[jtw1n]

in PvE its the quickest way and easiest way to take out a ship no matter the level. The issue is that npc's will match your speed in most cases stopping right next to you, so you can easily board. In pvp there is ways to avoid being boarded except then you have no sails or are outnumbered and pushed into the wind or have your T crossed. In any of these instances you'd probably be dead to rights anyways just you get boarded and the enemy gets a bit more loot then if they sunk you instead; and they save some ammo too. I have pvp'd a good deal in beta and through preboarding, i've only been boarded a few times in pvp and never since preboarding started.

[findangle]

if they board you have your friends sink em... solo pvp is not generally as common as everyone seems to think.

[ThomasSmith]

Really, it would just be nice if my ship's DR applied to my crew as well-


Makes sense to me. Bumped.

Could up the crew regen rate to simulate them getting back from behind cover, making the grapes less cumulative but that would still allow multiple cutters to annihilate warship crews completely.

Ship size tends to correlate with DR. I was hitting two-deckers from a Locust last night. I should fear their grapeshot pointed down at my decks, they should not fear mine spraying up into their armour.

[FeydmanKasaad]

I don't understand why it is better to change something than use the existing mechanics to just avoid it.

Already stated, but it seems to bear repeating:
1. Use grapple defense
2. Don't slow down to 6 knots
3. keep your distance

No need to dumb down the game, IMO.

[Romeo13]

I don't understand why it is better to change something than use the existing mechanics to just avoid it.

Already stated, but it seems to bear repeating:
1. Use grapple defense
2. Don't slow down to 6 knots
3. keep your distance

No need to dumb down the game, IMO.

Guess it depends on whether you look at this as a GAME,

or as a simulation of Naval Combat during the period.


For those of us who would like to be able to use Historical tactics... and have a realistic outcome... then it is an issue...

For those of us who would like the game to make sense in a REAL world way... its an issue...

If I want magic powers I'll go play WOW, or if I want Super Powers, I'll go play City of Heros... I was hoping this would be a game about Naval combat, and how it worked...

[Caldes]

To be fair, Romeo, it is not a true simulation, and really, I've never seen it billed as such.

[Romeo13]

To be fair, Romeo, it is not a true simulation, and really, I've never seen it billed as such.

"The Caribbean of 1720"


Sorry... I took this to mean that since the Caribbean was a real place... and 1720 was a real year... and they were using a real map... and real ships... and real historical personalities...

That it would have a fairly realistic combat system...

My bad then...

[Caldes]

Blazing Angels is set in real locations, in a real time period, with real planes, and real personalities.

And it is far far FAR from a true simulation with a realistic combat system.

Point being: those criteria a simulation does not make. Though PotBS is closer to being a true simulation than Blazing Angels, FLS has taken license with reality to attempt to make an enjoyable game playable by many based on a certain style of combat in a certain era instead of a multiplayer "Wooden Ships, Iron Men" (which I enjoyed the heck out of).

[Streetlight]

"The Caribbean of 1720"


Sorry... I took this to mean that since the Caribbean was a real place... and 1720 was a real year... and they were using a real map... and real ships... and real historical personalities...

That it would have a fairly realistic combat system...

My bad then...

ok so you want realism, fine...
Slow all the ships down in open sea to realistic speeds, make the map scaled to real size (so it would take a ****load more than 45 mins to cross), take the supernatural missions out, make the french suck, make pirates get executed when they get captured....would make a fun game wouldnt it...

...working as intended, and yes a hell of alot of fun either way

[Cavell]

Guess it depends on whether you look at this as a GAME,

or as a simulation of Naval Combat during the period.


For those of us who would like to be able to use Historical tactics... and have a realistic outcome... then it is an issue...

For those of us who would like the game to make sense in a REAL world way... its an issue...

If I want magic powers I'll go play WOW, or if I want Super Powers, I'll go play City of Heros... I was hoping this would be a game about Naval combat, and how it worked...

Boarding was a historical tactic, unless I'm wildly mistaken.

Privateers relied heavily on it, as they didn't want to damage the prize or its money-making cargo.

Various navies relied heavily on it as well. See: "Nelson's bridge".

Pirates relied almost exclusively on it, as you can't ransom prisoners that've been drowned when their ship sank, nor sell off a ship's cargo if it's at the bottom of the ocean, and let's not forget their penchant for acquiring newer and better ships via high-seas thievery.

My only gripe with boarding is that the grapple system actually penalizes you for doing it correctly - crunching up nice and smooth against the opposite ship, staying right in there, locking yards, etc. I always seem to have a much higher chance to board when I'm some forty yards away, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Captain_Korr]

Not only is boarding combat historically accurate, but if ship to ship cannon battles were the only possible way of fighting then it would put some of the classes at a distinct disadvantage.

The devs have made avoiding boarding combat fairly simple, but if someone has a faster ship, or decides to take down your sails while you shoot at their hull, you cant rule that out as a viable tactic.

[FeydmanKasaad]

Guess it depends on whether you look at this as a GAME,

or as a simulation of Naval Combat during the period.


For those of us who would like to be able to use Historical tactics... and have a realistic outcome... then it is an issue...

For those of us who would like the game to make sense in a REAL world way... its an issue...

If I want magic powers I'll go play WOW, or if I want Super Powers, I'll go play City of Heros... I was hoping this would be a game about Naval combat, and how it worked...

Well 100% realism isn't fun; people just think it is until they have to contend with it. It is a GAME, not a simulation and as such things happen faster and more often than in real life. If you had to sail your ship realistically, you would be so bogged down in the details you would spend most of your time getting out of port.

For what it is, I think the balance btw game and real life is pretty good. As people gain experience, boarding will be a lot harder, so its too soon to bring out the nerf bat as some of us like a challenge. I would rather figure out how to prevent a boarding than see it gimped.

[mrowz0r]

Ever since I started playing I haven't had any trouble with opponents boarding me in any situation. I have noticed that when people get boarded in situations where it's not completely avoidable it's because they made a mistake and are generally reluctant to admit it. You are probably one of those people if you think boarding is an issue.

Just a side-note for all of you: Stone shot is great for stopping people trying to board you dead in their tracks.