What if you don't want to pvp...

[Romeo]

I know i'm going to get famed for this, but this makes me wish i could get a refund of my money spent.

I'm not saying I don't want to PVP, i do. But there are times I don't, and one of those times was earlier today. First of all, I didn't even realize the port was already PVP, when i got there it wasn't.

I went to Havana to pick up some stuff from my structures to take to Sisal. Namely about 300 iron ore, 150 or so limestone, 50 iron ingots, and about 150 copper ingots. That's alot to me. When i left the port, i didn't even realize i was in pvp area (later i scrolled up to find that i got a small pink notice that i'm in PVP area). When i actually looked at the map, i noticed it's read, i hit L and saw that i am in PVP area, by then i was almost out of the deep red circle. I leave the circle and enter the lightly red circle...(what does that mean anyway), it gives me a message that i'm out of pvp area, and suddenly i get ambushed by 4 lvl 24-27s in Stralsunds and some other ships, didn't see other names (i'm lvl 20 in a bark, that i use to haul stuff without any ammo or anything...).

I try to run, no go, dump guns, speed boosts, with the wind, nothing, they stop me, i offer to surrender first 25%, then 50%, nothing. Oh well, i'm not giving those deuchebags anything, so i threw everything away so they get nothing.

But my point is, I was stuck in a port when it went pvp, didn't realize it in time, and got ambushed, it should still be somehow a /toggle or anything.

I bought 2 accounts today, so that's 100$ out of my pocket, and after that, it makes me wish i didn't.

I know i'm going to get alot of flames, and alot of **** about this. No, i dont hate the pvp, i just got caught in it unaware. There should be some kind of safety....i don't know, just something, things like this could cause someone to quit the game. At least it dissapointed me enough to want to log off. I was working on building some stuff to put on Ah, now i lost all of it. Really really dissapointing.

[Tishlin]

You were in the red. You got caught. You got killed.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

[NameTry2468]

After reading your post, I feel like you had all too many opportunities to avoid your fate. You lost to Darwin, if you ask me.

[Archavious]

There is no crying in the red circle. -Jokerkaaos

[bothan_pirate]

It can be frustrating and surprising. But the lessons learned harshly are the ones best learned.

If you are hauling valuable cargo ALWAYS ALWAYS pull your map up before you leave the port. Did I mention ALWAYS?

Because people like me are waiting outside to jump on the uninitiated, the distracted or the just plain didn't think to do it.

I can understand your anger, but honestly it really is a small price to pay for something you no doubt will remember from now on.

Most pirates should take your surrender--I would for sure. I don't WANT to fight you, I just want your stuff, and if I can get that without unloading any cannon balls that's all the better.

If you run into nationals, more than likely they're out for Marks and will sink you. You can offer but I don't expect quarter from them.

Good luck

[LiMuBei]

Well, that's an integral part of the game, guess you can't do anything but get used to it. As bothan_pirate said, always check the map before leaving a port.

Oh, and the light red circle means that you're in a pirate pvp zone. In that area you can only be attacked or attack pirates.

[Coyle]

Here is a simply tip.

If you have a warehouse in a port, before you haul goods from it, look at it on the map. When you hoover over the port, you will see what it's unrest levels are. Do not go there if those levels are high enough that they could flip soon.

You had the misfortune of learning your lesson the hardway. Money is still well spent, just realize, this is a world of pirates in which they can only attack you during one time, and that is when ports are contested. Don't be in contested ports.

[kungtotte]

For future reference, DON'T RUN. If you sit still, chances are people will accept a 25-50% offer of surrender. If you make them chase you, there's not a pirate in the seas that will accept even an unconditional surrender.

As for nationals, they're only a problem in the dark red circle, so avoid it if at all possible.

[ummax]

everyday when you login you need to get into the habit of opening the map before you do anything and see what is contended. Have a good ship elsewhere a starter player port is a good place so that you can do something else Or if you are aware and want to take the risk run with your cargo taking a route that looks to be shall we say the fastest (wind to your advantage etc). Most pirates accept surrendered goods and for more then one reason the main one being they likely could not carry everything you had anyhow. Some won't. That's the one pvp flaw in that game is that it can interrupt gameplay for those who aren't interested in PvP if they suddenly find themselves in a red circle or want to do a mission that is inside a red circle. There is no way around it other then to well not enter the circle even if it means waiting for it to go away. As a side note havana is probably not the best place to set up your main shall we say shop. I found in beta that is was almost permanently red so if you aren't into pvp its probably one of those ports that is almost always red because of its proximity to cayo de marquis. I would suggest moving if your not an avid pvp'er well your main stuff anyhow to a less of a hot spot there are a few areas that draw less interest scout out the map and ask those around you in your nation if they are aware of which ones are not like red almost all the time. Havana is a bad area for that.

[Kamui]

Something you can do if you log in and realise you're in a pirate zone is go to the harbormaster and get teleported to another port where you have a ship drydocked. Sure, your main ship will be left behind, but it'll be safe. Just use your back-up ship to carry cargo or kill enemy or something. It can be a little inconveniencing, but better then fighting when you don't wanna.

[Sykomyke421]

First Mistake: You had no situational awareness.
Second Mistake: You dumped your cargo. Now whenever those rats see you again, they won't even think twice about sinking you.
Third Mistake: Buying two accounts. And for what purpose? So you can make your own shipbuilding industry? Pretty much akin to buying gold for all intents and purposes.

[morosarge]

Aye sometimes thers things we dont want to do and granted you should have saw how much unrest was there in the first place. BUT im not here to say your faults.

In Rackham where im a Pirate French have been attacking Nassau like never before and have brought it into a Pirate PvP area. Now my problem and others should agree. This pretty much brings Morgans Bluff under PvP and all these new people are getting ambushed and they dont know why. There should at least be a low lvl protection not just on the starter ship cause the Starter sucks and everyone must upgrade.

[Kellindell]

If this is frustrating to you, spec the FT lines that give you the ability to dodge open sea combat. You get one killer skill that makes you immune to attacks on the open sea for like 30 seconds. Its pretty easy to blow out of both circles in 30 sec.

There is another skill that allows you to slow all enemies on the open sea.

Go up these tree's, and get alot of speed and you will be gtg.

My friend is the same way and this is a spec i worked for him to do crafting/cargo hauling.


Traveling/crafting spec
0 desp
5 escape
4 logistics
2 provisions
3 ship mastery
5 smuggling
5 trade
1 travel

I understand it lacks dump guns and battle prep manuevers, but this is about not getting attacked at all, not what to do if you get attacked.

If you want a pure hauling spec that doesnt involve crafting, drop points from logistics and get dump guns and battle prep manuevers.

With a spec like this the frustration will trade hands because people will never be able to attack you when they know you have a butt load of cargo.

And even as an avid PvPer I dont think your lame or deserved to be flamed. Some people just dont like pvp and thats cool.

But as easy as it is to level in this game get close to end game before you make a judgement.

If it still doesnt work out, then I dont know what to tell you. Its no different then buying a console game only to find you hate it.

Also try to find a society or a group of RL friends to escort you when you are hauling massive amounts of cargo.

And lastly, like everyone said, always check that map. If you enter a port and it gets contested after entering and your cooldowns arent up, go make a sandwich or drop a D, come back and then blow out of there.

[Breckon]

1. Always open your map and look for the red circles before you launch into OS.
2. Get used to opening your map even in OS. You would not want to sail into a PvP zone by accident.
3. Always check the contention points of the port you wish to enter. It may be near going into PvP.
4. Always have more than one ship in port. Make sure it is in a port that cannot be taken and has no port near it that can have the pvp zone cover it.

[phizuol]

Wow you offered 50 whole percent of your cargo after you knew you had no chance of escaping? Of course that will be rejected because they can get 100% by just finishing you off and double their winnings and get pvp marks too. Offer 100% if you really expect it to be accepted.

And in regards to people who don't want to pvp I made a post on it:
http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3162

Surrender education:
http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43

[xTekx]

If you don't want to PvP then don't play this game. It's as simple as that.

[Breckon]

If you don't want to PvP then don't play this game. It's as simple as that.

Wrong. You can play and avoid PvP if you play smart.

[OddjobXL]

I was reading about how peasants would teach thier children where the edges of their lands were back in the middle ages. They'd walk them to a landmark and smack them hard on the head. And then on to the next. And on to the next. Why? Because they believed the pain made the child focus and would help them to remember.

I suspect that worked.

[xTekx]

Wrong. You can play and avoid PvP if you play smart.

If you're smart yes. But getting caught like the OP described is more what I was referring to. Sorry, didn't clarify that.

There should be no /toggle for the red zones. If you're caught in them, tough. I do not want to see carebears ruin a good system because they hate PvP. I lost a lot of PvP in SWG because carebears were too stupid to think about what they were doing.

This game is about conquest. PvP is a huge part of that design. Either accept it, learn to avoid it, or leave the game. That is my opinion on the carebear crybabies.

[OddjobXL]

There was no system is SWG. It was tacked on gang-warfare and it undermined the setting in every possible way. PvP killed SWG.

PvP here, on the other hand, is crucial to the game's design and immersion in the setting. I think it's wise they've designed in breathing room for folks who want to play but would rather not PvP but even people playing the economic game do better if they risk more and stick a PvP flag on, but keep their situational awareness sharp, as they haul goods.

I think the design, as it is, should stand without bowing to either pure PvP or pure PvE arguments. Lets see how things actually work out over a period of months before adjustments should even be considered.

[Sykomyke421]

I was reading about how peasants would teach thier children where the edges of their lands were back in the middle ages. They'd walk them to a landmark and smack them hard on the head. And then on to the next. And on to the next. Why? Because they believed the pain made the child focus and would help them to remember.

I suspect that worked.

Ironically, I think the same thing still works today. :p

By the way, does anyone know why MoV don't drop when you just sink a ship rather then boarding? I think MoV should drop either way....not just cause you boarded.

[Breckon]

If you're smart yes. But getting caught like the OP described is more what I was referring to. Sorry, didn't clarify that.

There should be no /toggle for the red zones. If you're caught in them, tough. I do not want to see carebears ruin a good system because they hate PvP. I lost a lot of PvP in SWG because carebears were too stupid to think about what they were doing.

This game is about conquest. PvP is a huge part of that design. Either accept it, learn to avoid it, or leave the game. That is my opinion on the carebear crybabies.


It is live and learn. Since he had lots in Havana that means he had a pre-order. Red zone PvP started yesterday. Lets hope he learned and finds ways to avoid it next time. You are right duming down the game to help those that do not like PvP would be wrong. Also I played SWG back when you could get a TEF or turned PvP enable by a scan. That was the risk and I had no issue with it.

[xTekx]

There was no system is SWG. It was tacked on gang-warfare and it undermined the setting in every possible way. PvP killed SWG.



No.. PvP did not kill SWG. The lack of an actual war drove people away. But even still, in the beginning you had TEF's, and you had one type of base that could only be destroyed by being overt. The carebears took that away and PvP went downhill after that. Now all it is gankfests in Restuss.

SWG used to have PvP battles raging in player cities. It used to mean something to have bases up to defend in your city (only pride I know, but it was a lot at the time).

But unlike this game SWG did not have that war feel. There were really no consequences to anything. And even less when you took TEF's out. As much as people say TEF's were a bad thing, it brought about a little bit of that war feeling. You kill a ST in full view of a bunch of people you're going to have consequences. That got taken away.

Now i'm rambling. :p

[xTekx]

It is live and learn. Since he had lots in Havana that means he had a pre-order. Red zone PvP started yesterday. Lets hope he learned and finds ways to avoid it next time. You are right duming down the game to help those that do not like PvP would be wrong. Also I played SWG back when you could get a TEF or turned PvP enable by a scan. That was the risk and I had no issue with it.

SWG had so much potential.... arg... now i'm sailing the high sea's instead of shooting down Tie's and Xwing's. lol Where's the rum?

[OddjobXL]

No, you're not. That's the point - SWG's warfare didn't have a point. There was no win or lose there was just brawling. And it undermined the setting because, well, imagine if Star Wars the movies looked anything like Restuss...

You can't have shirts v. skins, level playing field, PvP in a setting that's all about the overwhelming power of an Empire and the plucky rebels who dare to stand up to it.

You can't have moral equivalency in a setting that's about the "epic struggle between Good and Evil" which is what SOE tried to do with the Empire in SWG. Rebels blew up Alderaan? And the Empire loves aliens? Why bother changing the setting around so much? PvP. Empire can't be the bad guys.

And why is it every scripted adventure in SWG is set against an NPC 3rd party that nobody's ever heard of? So both Imperial and Rebel players can use it. And why is The Empire even a playable faction? For PvP.

The biggest complaints, from the very beginning and until this very day, were lack of "Starwarsiness" (of course different people can define that in different ways) and lack of PvE content. Above we've taken a brief but effective stroll through why those things are missing. The new devs are working very hard on the latter but they don't even know how to even begin approaching the former.

Here, though, Pirates of The Burning Sea is at its heart a PvP game. And the setting very much supports the kind of PvP and economic warfare the game celebrates. There's even special mechanics for Pirates so they tend to fill a more believeable role than simply being another faction. It's a whole different ballgame and one that's going to be alot more healthy from a design perspective.

[Romeo]

Thanks for the constructive and helpful posts to those of you save few. I agree, it was mainly my fault for not opening the map. This was my first exposure to PVP in the game, there was no such in the pre-boarding and i never saw it in the few days of open beta I played.

I'll just be more careful, thanks again to those who offered help, guidance and just in general more constructive posts. The rest of you with things like - If you don't want to PvP then don't play this game. It's as simple as that. - can rot at the bottom of the sea :p.

[xTekx]

The rest of you with things like - If you don't want to PvP then don't play this game. It's as simple as that. - can rot at the bottom of the sea :p.

You know, i'm not trying to be mean... but really, there's a lot to this game. Reading is a really good way to learn about a game before you buy it. Reading can teach you the way the game works.

You made a statement of "it should still be somehow a /toggle or anything. "

That goes against the design of the game. You seem to want that because you didn't like the fact that you got jumped in a red zone. What are we supposed to think with a statement like that?

You also made the statement of "There should be some kind of safety....i don't know, just something, things like this could cause someone to quit the game." How is this kind of statement supposed to be taken?

Again, this isn't going to be a game for everyone. If people would learn to think about how to adapt to the design of the game instead of trying to change it they might find that they will get better at the game faster.

You got caught in a red zone. I'm sure it's going to happen to a lot of people. Why? Because that's how the game was designed. It's an aspect of the game that helps contribute to the overall feeling of total war. After all, the objective is to defeat the other nations. By flipping ports, buying up resources, sinking ships, preying on FT's moving goods, by whatever means necessary that is going to cause your enemies to have a harder time fighting the war.

But, i'm sure i'll still be told to go rot at the bottom of the sea. I know i'll have some ships sitting on the bottom very shortly. But you know what? I expect it. And i'm not going to come to the boards and complain that my ship got blown up.

[NameTry2468]

Let him go man, I think he's learned his lesson, and it looks like he's willing to give the game another shot and see why it was designed the way it was.

My only advice to the OP is that next time, if you'd like to get more constructive answers, try asking more polite questions instead of making aggressive statements like saying that by buying this game you'd wasted $100 and all that jazz. It hurts the devs feelings, and it makes the fans of the game get (a little overly) defensive, and I'll admit I'm not innocent of that. There are whole threads in the forums dedicated to strategies on how to best avoid PVP when you don't want to, and what are better ways to negotiate surrender if you do happen to get caught in a situation you don't like.

[Captain_Korr]

Btw that outer red zone you mentioned earlier is the pirate PvP zone and the inner red circle is the national PvP zone. In the outer circle only pirates and certain privateers can attack you. In the inner circle anyone can attack you.

[tfsmick]

There is no crying in the red circle. -Jokerkaaos

QFE as they say.

[Gaunthor]

I try to run, no go, dump guns, speed boosts, with the wind, nothing, they stop me, i offer to surrender first 25%, then 50%, nothing. Oh well, i'm not giving those deuchebags anything, so i threw everything away so they get nothing.


Nice work dumping everything after offering 50%. But people don't accept surrender because people have used gravel in the past as cargo surrender. Maybe if we could see what is offered as surrender then maybe they would think twice about rejecting the offer. I know I would have taken 50% knowing what the cargo held.

Randall.

[LiMuBei]

There's also the problem that you don't get a Mark of Victory for accepting a surrender. This makes people very...unforgiving.

[Marxxus]

It hurts the devs feelings,

The money went from his pocket to the devs pockets already...what are their feelings hurt about?




Start new subject (The following does not pertain to the poster for whom I quoted)



I said it before and I will say it again, whether he read every single review/preview out there and still missed something, his $50 or in this case $100, he has earned his right to suggest anything, whether you think it is valid or not, answers like "Don't play then" is completely ludicrous.

[Kamui]

Sooo...he has the right to suggest anything, but no one else does? Actually, everyone has the right to suggest anything. Including sugesting he not play the game. Sugestions are just words afterall with no power atall. Granted, that particular sugestion I find somewhat churlish but what the heck. As long as what people say does not break the forum rules, it's all good. Including statements you may not appreciate, agree with, or want to hear.

[Marxxus]

Sooo...he has the right to suggest anything, but no one else does? Actually, everyone has the right to suggest anything. Including sugesting he not play the game. Sugestions are just words afterall with no power atall. Granted, that particular sugestion I find somewhat churlish but what the heck. As long as what people say does not break the forum rules, it's all good. Including statements you may not appreciate, agree with, or want to hear.

Ok. Fair enough. I just wish people who do not want to be constructive, and just wish to troll would stop with those sort of comments. You are right though, they paid their money too.

[xTekx]

Ok. Fair enough. I just wish people who do not want to be constructive, and just wish to troll would stop with those sort of comments. You are right though, they paid their money too.

That's funny. I viewed your thread as a troll last night.

[ZweiHund]

I'm not sure if I saw it mentioned...but you also have a window of time [50seconds I think] when you zone out of a port of immunity.

If you do NOTHING during that time - and see your in a PvP area - you can reenter the port ASAP with no harm no foul.

Just an FYI if you were not aware.

[Marxxus]

That's funny. I viewed your thread as a troll last night.

And your answer for most threads is by overusing the word "carebear" and the comment "Don't play then".

There are people who agree with me, even if I do come across harsh towards the game. Speaking up is the only way to make it better.

I am not here to start a verbal war with you, I just want to enjoy my $15 a month.

[xTekx]

And your answer for most threads is by overusing the word "carebear" and the comment "Don't play then".

There are people who agree with me, even if I do come across harsh towards the game. Speaking up is the only way to make it better.

I am not here to start a verbal war with you, I just want to enjoy my $15 a month.

I'm not here for a verbal war either, though I do like to debate (as in an actual debate, and not a flame war). :D

However my use of the term Carebear is a proper term for many reasons. Anytime a PvE'er tries to take away my PvP content they are going to get called a carebear. I'm not saying you are a carebear right now, but that is what I mean when I say carebear. I saw it happen in SWG and it caused huge problems to echo through out the game. I don't want to see it happen here. I play this game for a bunch of different reasons, and nearly all of those reasons are PvP oriented. If some PvE'er wants to take it away because they "don't like PVP" then there is going be some friction.

My use of the term "don't play then" is because people seem to want to change games to suit "their" needs and not the games needs. I argued this point in JTL(SWG) for years. People wanted things changed in the game because they wanted something that would make it easier for them. It didn't matter what the consequences would be in the overall balance of the game. People (general term) need to play the game that was designed, and not try to change it because they got killed in a video game. If they don't like how the game was designed then they can always save their 15 dollars (or 20 if you're EU) a month and go play a different game. That's my point.

Speaking up about problems to promote a discussion is fine. I spoke up about problems in SWG about things in JTL all the time. That's problems of bugs or major balance issues, not arguing for change to design issues. But creating threads that, like yours yesterday, that show you didn't think about things before hand creates problems. Hence why I responded the way I did. There are tactics in every form of PvP. There may be problems that need to be tweaked, however there are still tactics for everything.

[Marxxus]

Hey xTekx. Thanks for that last post, seriously.

I like you alot more than I did last night. :)

I wanted to PVP, that is why I was there. I did not get caught and by no means was I trying to remove PVP. It needs work though.

I am sure people will have issues with what I am about to say (it will bring up an entire new thread of class balance issues). I feel (my opinion) you should have to fight the other captain for his ship. IF certain classes cannot survive well in avcom, then their ship skills should reflect that for a higher survivability at sea. You get boarded? Where were you at? Did you get ambushed? Where are your buddies? Using flawed game mechanics (dev's have already admitted it needs work) to your advantage is something that should have been ironed out in beta.

Honestly, if the penalty for losing PVP wasn't so harsh, I would probably have posted on the lighter side.

Ok, sorry hijacked this thread a lil.

As far as the OP stating "What if you don't want to PVP?" I don't think that was meant to say he never wanted to PVP, he just did not want to do it right then. If you say that is what the risk is for, IE try to transfer goods in a high unrest area (red circle) you get what you deserve...I am not sure I agree. For example, you have to log for whatever reason (screaming kids, bad faction with the wife, etc etc) and you log in a possible yet not unrested city. You come back in the next day and to avoid losing an *****ton of materials you have to port to another ship and wait for the unrest to be over? That could take forever. Not so cool to lock up your main ship because PVP is going on. I just reread my last paragraph and I know it is coming..."That is the way the ball bounces" comments incoming. Bottom line, no aspect of the game should rob you of your playing time just because pvp is going on.

[jayfe]

You know, in the OPs defense, it wouldn't hurt to toss a warning message before you go to the open sea..."are you sure, the area around here is infested with pirates and our enemies!"

I agree with situational awareness, etc. But honestly, where's the harm in a warning message?

-Jeff

[Tahrqa]

I know i'm going to get famed for this, but this makes me wish i could get a refund of my money spent.

I'm not saying I don't want to PVP, i do. But there are times I don't, and one of those times was earlier today. First of all, I didn't even realize the port was already PVP, when i got there it wasn't.

I went to Havana to pick up some stuff from my structures to take to Sisal. Namely about 300 iron ore, 150 or so limestone, 50 iron ingots, and about 150 copper ingots. That's alot to me. When i left the port, i didn't even realize i was in pvp area (later i scrolled up to find that i got a small pink notice that i'm in PVP area). When i actually looked at the map, i noticed it's read, i hit L and saw that i am in PVP area, by then i was almost out of the deep red circle. I leave the circle and enter the lightly red circle...(what does that mean anyway), it gives me a message that i'm out of pvp area, and suddenly i get ambushed by 4 lvl 24-27s in Stralsunds and some other ships, didn't see other names (i'm lvl 20 in a bark, that i use to haul stuff without any ammo or anything...).

I try to run, no go, dump guns, speed boosts, with the wind, nothing, they stop me, i offer to surrender first 25%, then 50%, nothing. Oh well, i'm not giving those deuchebags anything, so i threw everything away so they get nothing.

But my point is, I was stuck in a port when it went pvp, didn't realize it in time, and got ambushed, it should still be somehow a /toggle or anything.

I bought 2 accounts today, so that's 100$ out of my pocket, and after that, it makes me wish i didn't.

I know i'm going to get alot of flames, and alot of **** about this. No, i dont hate the pvp, i just got caught in it unaware. There should be some kind of safety....i don't know, just something, things like this could cause someone to quit the game. At least it dissapointed me enough to want to log off. I was working on building some stuff to put on Ah, now i lost all of it. Really really dissapointing.

No ... you just need to learn. I'm not going to flame you ... I made the same mistake in EVE not realizing a war had gone live and undocking to find the station camped ... in short order I was space dust and crawling out of a cloning vat.

Always check the map in regard to the status of the port before leaving .... if the port had two red circles that meant it had gone from Pirate PvP to full PvP ... so either you were in port for a long time or it was already in Pirate PvP when you went in. When you leave the port don't sail or use any abilities for a second until you can get your situational awareness ... you come out of port with an invulnerability buff until you do something and you're within 'docking' distance so if you don't like what you see you can go back into port without ever being vulnerable.