Please return the O.S. contention/money to Closed Beta!

[Detritus]

We had 4 full groups working Turtling for 8 hours before it flipped and only made like 5-10k per person in all that time. That is a huge amount of time and man power to dedicate. At the present levels of contention decay you really have to keep at it or all of your previous effort evaporates quickly.

There is already enough forced PVE with the career missions and the amount you had us grinding contention before in Closed Beta.

PVPers, by and large, do not like PVE. It just isn't fun/challenging/rewarding. So forcing us to PVE for 8 hours to get a PVP zone and battle is just going to burn us all out in a hurry. We saw this in beta; I know I remember pointing this out when lots of beta testers were disappearing.

Please address this immediately. I love the PVP in this game, but I just won't have it in me to keep this grind up and won't be maintaining a subscription beyond the first month.

[Spinnaker Sam]

4 full groups aren't supposed to be able to put a port into unrest easily. The devs want it to be a national effort, not a small team effort. If you want ports to go into contention faster you need more groups, not easier unrest generation.

Working as intended.

Dev quote
"Rev: We'll keep an eye on it, but we don't expect and did not intend that 3 groups of players could flip a port in a few hours. It needs to be on a bigger scale than that."

[Spinnaker Sam]

PVPers, by and large, do not like PVE. It just isn't fun/challenging/rewarding. So forcing us to PVE for 8 hours to get a PVP zone and battle is just going to burn us all out in a hurry.
By and large, PvErs don't like PvP. It is just plain annoying to have to avoid ports. So forcing us to avoid PvP area or to sail into them to get to a PvE mission is going to annoy us in a real hurry. I think they should turn PvP off. Both sides have to deal with annoyances, so it is fine as it is.:rolleyes:;)

[Cik]

The devs want it to be a national effort, not a small team effort.

Granted but the decay seems awfully fast.

[keline]

Have you also worked with the Rebel agent?

[Detritus]

4 full groups aren't supposed to be able to put a port into unrest easily. The devs want it to be a national effort, not a small team effort. If you want ports to go into contention faster you need more groups, not easier unrest generation.


That was a national effort. We had 3 of Spains biggest guilds working it. There isn't any more national effort to be mustered, and this is on Rackham where Spain is "Moderate".

Plus it wouldn't make any sense to expect more than 4 groups to be working on a port since only 24 people get invited to the port battle! So let us say SOE starts promoting the game and it becomes possible to get 8 groups working a port; 2x the people should be 1/2 the time, right? Alright so now it is still 4 hours of being bored senseless and now only 1/2 of the people who spend 4 hours being bored get invites to the battle?


Working as intended.

Dev quote
"Rev: We'll keep an eye on it, but we don't expect and did not intend that 3 groups of players could flip a port in a few hours. It needs to be on a bigger scale than that."


Then the intent will lead to burnout before the end of the first free month. Try doing a boring task for 4-8 hours every day for a month and then see if you want to pay $15 for the privilege to do that again. PvPers stopped playing in Beta when it was free and took 1/4 of the time and effort it takes now.

[rodarin]

LMAO "national effort" if there are only 50 people on per nation on some servers 4 full groups is half the national population. Even on a server with 200 people, 24 people is more than 10% of the population. Not sure if that is considered a "national effort" or not. But it is a decent number of people.

it goes more to server populations than anything else. They probably would need to make it a server by server ratio if they were goign to adjust the gain rates for contention.

[Jimmy Crackskull]

The mechanic for contention is great. I do agree the contention decay is a wee bit too fast.

I think it should only be 100points an hour. Made faster only by player defence of the port. National effort and all. If the attackers have to work at it so should the defenders.

[Jimmy Crackskull]

LMAO "national effort" if there are only 50 people on per nation on some servers 4 full groups is half the national population. Even on a server with 200 people, 24 people is more than 10% of the population. Not sure if that is considered a "national effort" or not. But it is a decent number of people.

it goes more to server populations than anything else. They probably would need to make it a server by server ratio if they were goign to adjust the gain rates for contention.

They realy started with too many servers.

[Cik]

I do agree the contention decay is a wee bit too fast.

Not only that, but the mechanism for buying off contention seems a bit easy. Almost seems that we'll be in a perpetual state of PvE'ing, wash, rinse, repeating, much more so than anything else like really influencing the map. /shrugs

They realy started with too many servers.

True

[stale2002]

By and large, PvErs don't like PvP. It is just plain annoying to have to avoid ports. So forcing us to avoid PvP area or to sail into them to get to a PvE mission is going to annoy us in a real hurry. I think they should turn PvP off. Both sides have to deal with annoyances, so it is fine as it is.:rolleyes:;)

PvErs are NEVER actually forced to PvP. They are only ever inconvienced every now and then by making them have to go around the red circle. While on the otherhand, PvPers have to do hours and hours and hours of PvEing to get their character to max LvL. What if to LvL one was forced to PvP? How would that be different?

[Detritus]

PvErs are NEVER actually forced to PvP. They are only ever inconvienced every now and then by making them have to go around the red circle. While on the otherhand, PvPers have to do hours and hours and hours of PvEing to get their character to max LvL. What if to LvL one was forced to PvP? How would that be different?

Exactly. This is Guild Wars launch all over again. Beta was fine and then at launch, "Hai guis! I herd u liek PVP, well now u have 2 grindz0r PVE 4x more!"

It took them 6 months to figure out this was a boneheaded move and by then the damage was done. A lot of PVP guilds never returned even after the PVP Editions (2 years after release).

Additionally it shouldn't escape anyone's notice that Mega-Grind only came up around here after we had that big switch to SOE's servers.

[Illyrian2008]

Exactly. This is Guild Wars launch all over again. Beta was fine and then at launch, "Hai guis! I herd u liek PVP, well now u have 2 grindz0r PVE 4x more!"

It took them 6 months to figure out this was a boneheaded move and by then the damage was done. A lot of PVP guilds never returned even after the PVP Editions (2 years after release).

Additionally it shouldn't escape anyone's notice that Mega-Grind only came up around here after we had that big switch to SOE's servers.

Whaa, I hate PvE and I want a) be able to PvP all the time and b) force PvEers to PvP because that way I can pwn n00bz!

And red circle is more than a small annoyance if one wants to play economy.

[xTekx]

And red circle is more than a small annoyance if one wants to play economy.

It's part of the game. Deal with it. Or do you want to "Waah" to?

[Spinnaker Sam]

Plus it wouldn't make any sense to expect more than 4 groups to be working on a port since only 24 people get invited to the port battle!

By your logic then only 12 groups of players (72 players) total should be involved in contention since a nation can only have 3 ports in a PvP status at any one time. Why should any more participate since you only need that many? Does that make any sense?

Maybe the problem isn't the speed of contention building, but the lack of people who are interested in creating PvP zones? Maybe there isn't as many people interested in PvP as some people wanted to believe? Either that or too many PvPers would rather leach off the work of others rather than help their nation create the PvP zones faster.

This is one game where PvPers have to work to create their playground, they aren't going to have them handed to them like children.

[Fatebringer]

Maybe the problem isn't the speed of contention building, but the lack of people who are interested in creating PvP zones? Maybe there isn't as many people interested in PvP as some people wanted to believe? Either that or too many PvPers would rather leach off the work of others rather than help their nation create the PvP zones faster.



Risk Vs Reward or "why should I work on contention and lose durability on my ship when I'm not getting anything out of it".

I'm just hoping to get through the current cycle of releasing 2 weeks of pent up PVP without losing my sanity.

Losing the port where I need to do my class quests 2 hours into the night to essentially a spanish epeen-block on a port that isnt close to their industrial base was less than fun (but hey they wanted to do it enough to spend 100k dbl to buy the port into contention).

[Garbad_the_Weak]

4 full groups aren't supposed to be able to put a port into unrest easily. The devs want it to be a national effort, not a small team effort. If you want ports to go into contention faster you need more groups, not easier unrest generation.

Working as intended.

Dev quote
"Rev: We'll keep an eye on it, but we don't expect and did not intend that 3 groups of players could flip a port in a few hours. It needs to be on a bigger scale than that."Spawn rate makes it inefficient to have more than 2-3 groups, max. This is just a pve grind hurdle, and needs to be fixed.

[stale2002]

Risk Vs Reward or "why should I work on contention and lose durability on my ship when I'm not getting anything out of it".

I'm just hoping to get through the current cycle of releasing 2 weeks of pent up PVP without losing my sanity.

Losing the port where I need to do my class quests 2 hours into the night to essentially a spanish epeen-block on a port that isnt close to their industrial base was less than fun (but hey they wanted to do it enough to spend 100k dbl to buy the port into contention).

So. Me being forced to grind and PvE for hours after 20 minutes of PvPing is less that fun as well. At least PvErs and economers are never forced to do anything. PvPers are forced to pve when most don't want to.

[Fatebringer]

So. Me being forced to grind and PvE for hours after 20 minutes of PvPing is less that fun as well. At least PvErs and economers are never forced to do anything. PvPers are forced to pve when most don't want to.

I'm not arguing with you, I dont think that PVP deaths should cost you your ship. (cargo and fittings maybe).

[P. Pete]

As someone said, In quite a lot of areas, there isn't enough NPCs within 50 miles of the target port to grind on for 1 group much less 4 or 8 or 12 or whatever is a national effort.

We had a group down at turtling bay and 90% of the brit NPCs were under level 19 and in groups of 3 or less.

I saw only 1 decent NPC convoy the whole time which was 4 x lvl 45's.

Mostly though we were getting 11 points total [not each] per level 19 ship.

so you work out how long that will take to get to 10,000 or whatever the point total required now is, when you consider the place isn't exactly chock full of NPC convoys.

[Detritus]

By your logic then only 12 groups of players (72 players) total should be involved in contention since a nation can only have 3 ports in a PvP status at any one time. Why should any more participate since you only need that many? Does that make any sense?

Unless they changed it in open beta the cap is 4 ports. So 96 players, which I agree is far too low. If a nation has even "low" pop with 200 people only half of them get to participate in a port battle each day. That doesn't make any sense.


This is one game where PvPers have to work to create their playground, they aren't going to have them handed to them like children.

Typical, carebear, passive-aggressive nonsense.

[Ravenau deLusan]

If all you want to do is PvP then turn on your PvP flag and go do it. If there are really that many players who only want to PvP it should be easy enough to find them.

Just turn on the flag. That's all you have to do. No PvE is required. No long trips to red circles. No worrying about contention decay. No fooling with contention & port conquest at all.

There's no crying outside the red circle either.

[Bognor]

By and large, PvErs don't like PvP. It is just plain annoying to have to avoid ports. So forcing us to avoid PvP area or to sail into them to get to a PvE mission is going to annoy us in a real hurry. I think they should turn PvP off. Both sides have to deal with annoyances, so it is fine as it is.:rolleyes:;)


Yeah, mate, but it's an RvR game.

Oops, my sarcasm meter was switched off -- move along, nothing to see here.

Bog

[Garbad_the_Weak]

If all you want to do is PvP then turn on your PvP flag and go do it. If there are really that many players who only want to PvP it should be easy enough to find them.

Just turn on the flag. That's all you have to do. No PvE is required. No long trips to red circles. No worrying about contention decay. No fooling with contention & port conquest at all.

There's no crying outside the red circle either.PvP flag isn't adequate. At all.

On the other hand, if we could have a permanent red zone around tort, sure, I could live with that. Actually, let's add a permanent red zone around every DNH to make the game exciting. Then we could PvP without pve grind. The RvR would still be there, but FTers would have to take some risk to make the biggest ships and pvpers would be grind free.

P.S. I have had pvp flags on all my chars for over 2 weeks and I have been attacked exactly once.

[bonelizzard]

This game is fantastic, but flipping ports is **** boring, end of story.

This is not a question of PvPers vs PvEers. All aspects of the game should be interesting, PvP, PvE, Economy and RvR.

[bpdlr]

Wow, don't see what the fuss is about. You have to grind to level after all. Sure it might get boring once you're capped, but there'll be plenty of other stuff to keep you going. We managed to flip Irish Point in under 4 hours from release, and it wasn't even that much of a concerted effort. Granted, there's a lot of spawns there. Maybe that port is designed to be easy to flip, and others aren't?

[Sildan75]

Geez talk about impatience.. The game hasnt even had contention for 5 days and people are already complaining about it being too hard to play contention.

At the moment there is a lack of interest because of the fact that everyone is levelling. There are hardcore players who are lucky enough to be able to grind 5-10 levels a day as well as find spare time to PvP, but there are a lot of people who do not have that kind of time to invest and would rather concentrate on levels before PvP. Once the average server level matures, I am confident that you will see more people PvPing.

Another point you need to consider is that if you had the nme nation trying to defend their port whilst you were working on contention points, you would get contention points for sinking them too. Since everyone seems to be concentrating on attacking rather than defending, you are having issues with this and a lack of PvP.

[FlipNiceGuy]

40 contention per mission
4 small arms per 40 contention
1.000 small arms for 10.000 contention

280 doublons per 1 small arm
280.000 doublones for 1000 small armes or 10.000 contention

4 full groups of players = 24 player
--------------------
11.667 doublones per player to put a port in contention
or
41,6 small arms per player

Well I do not know if there is any limit to this missions but I was able to raise 400 contention within 1 minute by completing this mission 10 times in a row. So I DO hope there is any limit cause if not it's too EASY to put a port into contention. It even could be done by only ONE player ;)
But one thing is for sure, if you are using the economy you can make things go much easier ;)

[Illyrian2008]

PvP flag isn't adequate. At all.

On the other hand, if we could have a permanent red zone around tort, sure, I could live with that. Actually, let's add a permanent red zone around every DNH to make the game exciting. Then we could PvP without pve grind. The RvR would still be there, but FTers would have to take some risk to make the biggest ships and pvpers would be grind free.

P.S. I have had pvp flags on all my chars for over 2 weeks and I have been attacked exactly once.

I have a better idea.

We could have red zones removed from the game so pvpers can fight only with those that self flag, I can live with that. That way FT's and PvErs could PvE without PvP annoyance and dealing with twich kids who sit on the game for ten hours straight.

And that being said I think dedicated PvP and PvE servers might be a good idea, with first group having permanent red zones and pvp flags with disabled ship durability and second one having consentual pvp when both sides are flagged only.

[bad_karma5]

40 contention per mission
4 small arms per 40 contention
1.000 small arms for 10.000 contention

280 doublons per 1 small arm
280.000 doublones for 1000 small armes or 10.000 contention

4 full groups of players = 24 player
--------------------
11.667 doublones per player to put a port in contention
or
41,6 small arms per player

Well I do not know if there is any limit to this missions but I was able to raise 400 contention within 1 minute by completing this mission 10 times in a row. So I DO hope there is any limit cause if not it's too EASY to put a port into contention. It even could be done by only ONE player ;)
But one thing is for sure, if you are using the economy you can make things go much easier ;)

This is a great example of the underlying problem here.
The thread has already devolved into a PvP vs PvE/Traders flame war.

*NEWSFLASH* In THIS game, you work together, not against each other!

PvE'ers "grind" the circles (that's what they like), Traders bring in goods and raise contention, PvP'ers patrol the zones taking on other PvP'ers and letting the PvE'ers "grind" in peace. PvP'ers don't like fighting NPC's? PvE'ers do, so keep the opposing nations gank squad off of them while they do it! PvP'ers and PvE'ers keep your traders combat free as they bring in unrest supplies.
A whole nation, working together, every class having their place. What an amazing concept for a multi-player game.
Now we just have to wait until the players work it out...... *looks at watch* ..... maybe I'll get a calender instead!

Finally, it's bound to be quiet at the moment, people are all busy leveling. I took a trip to a PvP zone and took down some NPC's last night, but all the time I had missions calling to me that they needed completing, and ships that I can't use yet calling me to captain them.
Patience young padawans, all will come in time.

[ummax]

PvErs are NEVER actually forced to PvP. They are only ever inconvienced every now and then by making them have to go around the red circle. While on the otherhand, PvPers have to do hours and hours and hours of PvEing to get their character to max LvL. What if to LvL one was forced to PvP? How would that be different?

hrm I remember often waiting 3 days to finish a mission or 3 days to get a ship out or 3 days to haul my cargo. Its quite inconvenient trust me. IN fact its so incovenient at times I have been known not to play for 1-2 weeks while the contended zones went away so i could actulay do something. Trust me there are times when this game is actualy close to unplayable if your unlucky enough to be in the wrong ports PLURAL at the wrong times. The choice is to

a) logout for 3 days
b) play yet another alt.. you get quite a lot of alts as pvp zones flip flop all over the place
c) hold your breath and hope you dont get attacked while trying to get what you really wanted to do done


I have had a friend who was a very very avid sea and sail enthusiast moreso then me decide not to pick up this game as a result of the pvp which he found interrupted his game play far to much. I could never convince him to learn how to fight back .. he hated it so much he would just let himself get sunk or abandon ship and logout. Trust me PvE'ers are at times more then just a little inconvenienced by the pvp. Its voluntary to a point.. but when a game takes you to a port to complete a mission and there is a red circle the choices are not very good and include just not doing anythign that night and playing another game.

[ummax]

This is a great example of the underlying problem here.
The thread has already devolved into a PvP vs PvE/Traders flame war.

*NEWSFLASH* In THIS game, you work together, not against each other!

PvE'ers "grind" the circles (that's what they like), Traders bring in goods and raise contention, PvP'ers patrol the zones taking on other PvP'ers and letting the PvE'ers "grind" in peace. PvP'ers don't like fighting NPC's? PvE'ers do, so keep the opposing nations gank squad off of them while they do it! PvP'ers and PvE'ers keep your traders combat free as they bring in unrest supplies.
A whole nation, working together, every class having their place. What an amazing concept for a multi-player game.
Now we just have to wait until the players work it out...... *looks at watch* ..... maybe I'll get a calender instead!

Finally, it's bound to be quiet at the moment, people are all busy leveling. I took a trip to a PvP zone and took down some NPC's last night, but all the time I had missions calling to me that they needed completing, and ships that I can't use yet calling me to captain them.
Patience young padawans, all will come in time.


That's probably the most sense I have seen written about this issue in a long time. Its a pitty no one tries to use this advice and everyone would be happy.

[Broom]

40 contention per mission
4 small arms per 40 contention
1.000 small arms for 10.000 contention

280 doublons per 1 small arm
280.000 doublones for 1000 small armes or 10.000 contention

4 full groups of players = 24 player
--------------------
11.667 doublones per player to put a port in contention
or
41,6 small arms per player

Well I do not know if there is any limit to this missions but I was able to raise 400 contention within 1 minute by completing this mission 10 times in a row. So I DO hope there is any limit cause if not it's too EASY to put a port into contention. It even could be done by only ONE player ;)
But one thing is for sure, if you are using the economy you can make things go much easier ;)

Big misconception here. YOU CANNOT BRING A PORT TO PORT BATTLE STATUS WITH MISSIONS OR TRADE_INS. The rebel agent will NOT talk to you once 6K unrest has been achieved. Even if you Do use the hand-ins to help build contention, the final leg remains a grind.

Also, I think the OP was talking about the fact that for all that work, you get fairly little in return. The hours spent grinding NPCs only give you a fraction of the amount you can earn doing missions in that time. Which should, IMHO, be adjusted.

Linna

[bpdlr]

The hours spent grinding NPCs only give you a fraction of the amount you can earn doing missions in that time. Which should, IMHO, be adjusted.

Missions are for money, OS grinding is for XP. Just be thankful you aren't a pirate, you get 5 times the money off NPCs than we do.

[Alienfreak]

The scavange skill gives you more than the 80% you miss.
With scavange you have more like a 100% boost when comparing to nationals.

[Nicholai Pestot]

i don't know if this is of any major concern to anyone, but last night we killed 7 players over the space of 40 minutes outside friendly port with a pirate pvp ring.

After winning the last 6v6 battle with 5 kills and no losses we left the instance into clear seas with no PvP circle. To our shock almost 3,000 contention had vanished. There were no other friendlys in the area.

Prehapse us PvP'ers should start going where the opposing players are ;)

[johnnyjet]

This is a great example of the underlying problem here.
The thread has already devolved into a PvP vs PvE/Traders flame war.

*NEWSFLASH* In THIS game, you work together, not against each other!

PvE'ers "grind" the circles (that's what they like), Traders bring in goods and raise contention, PvP'ers patrol the zones taking on other PvP'ers and letting the PvE'ers "grind" in peace. PvP'ers don't like fighting NPC's? PvE'ers do, so keep the opposing nations gank squad off of them while they do it! PvP'ers and PvE'ers keep your traders combat free as they bring in unrest supplies.
A whole nation, working together, every class having their place. What an amazing concept for a multi-player game.
Now we just have to wait until the players work it out...... *looks at watch* ..... maybe I'll get a calender instead!

Finally, it's bound to be quiet at the moment, people are all busy leveling.

I hope you are right that it's quiet because of leveling.

And I believe you have hit on the central problem that the game faces. This amazing concept of "A whole nation, working together, every class having their place". That's a tall order actually.

I am not sure that everybody who buys this game is going to be focused on the RVR thing that the game is designed around. People are selfish if you can call it that. They buy a game to have fun. PVPr's want to PVP, grinding is not fun. PVEr's grind but it's not fun when those selfish PVPr's don't help out with the RVR war. Traders hate PVP, it's not fun when they get PK'd.

I don't know that these divergent styles can be satisfied in a way that is FUN for all. If at any point the game seems like work or gets boring, you start to lose those people.

I think FLS has a challenge with this unique game design to keep the game fun for all. I am a PVP'r and I am already bored with the amount of grinding involved.

But I agree with you it is early, I'm prepared to watch and see what happens. I just don't think that the majority will be willing to work together if they are not finding enough fun for their unigue playstyle.

[jadedduck1]

This is a great example of the underlying problem here.
The thread has already devolved into a PvP vs PvE/Traders flame war.

*NEWSFLASH* In THIS game, you work together, not against each other!

PvE'ers "grind" the circles (that's what they like), Traders bring in goods and raise contention, PvP'ers patrol the zones taking on other PvP'ers and letting the PvE'ers "grind" in peace. PvP'ers don't like fighting NPC's? PvE'ers do, so keep the opposing nations gank squad off of them while they do it! PvP'ers and PvE'ers keep your traders combat free as they bring in unrest supplies.
A whole nation, working together, every class having their place. What an amazing concept for a multi-player game.
Now we just have to wait until the players work it out...... *looks at watch* ..... maybe I'll get a calender instead!

Finally, it's bound to be quiet at the moment, people are all busy leveling. I took a trip to a PvP zone and took down some NPC's last night, but all the time I had missions calling to me that they needed completing, and ships that I can't use yet calling me to captain them.
Patience young padawans, all will come in time.

Thats a great theory, but it is just a theory. In reality that doesn't happen. Theres no traders shipping in goods, or pvers killing npcs. It is PVPers killing npcs and shipping in goods to get their pvp. Pvers can run missions and get a lil storyline and rewards...why farm on the OS? Real merchants sell their goods, not throw them away for PvPers.

[Bligh]

4 full groups aren't supposed to be able to put a port into unrest easily. The devs want it to be a national effort, not a small team effort. If you want ports to go into contention faster you need more groups, not easier unrest generation.

Working as intended.

Dev quote
"Rev: We'll keep an eye on it, but we don't expect and did not intend that 3 groups of players could flip a port in a few hours. It needs to be on a bigger scale than that."

So, only 25 people per side in a port battle but it should take 50 to flip the port? Good luck with getting that to happen. Like i have said in other posts there are not enough NPCs to support more than 4 full groups at any port anyway.

[Detritus]

So, only 25 people per side in a port battle but it should take 50 to flip the port? Good luck with getting that to happen. Like i have said in other posts there are not enough NPCs to support more than 4 full groups at any port anyway.

You know a situation is bad if I'm quoting Bligh in agreement, but he is right.

Last night when the invites went out we had a lot of disappointed people who spent 8-9 hours grinding for TB and weren't invited to the battle. Can you imagine how disappointed you'd be if you spent 8-9 hours and then you didn't get the pay-off?

[Spinnaker Sam]

There is no good solution to people being disappointed. They just have to realize that the game designed that way to provide an equal opportunity for everyone to participate, regardless of the number of hours put in. When the game gets going players will have lots of other port battles they can qualify for. Just because they didn't get into one doesn't mean they can't have a half dozen more waiting.

I am not sure that everybody who buys this game is going to be focused on the RVR thing that the game is designed around. People are selfish if you can call it that. They buy a game to have fun. PVPr's want to PVP, grinding is not fun. PVEr's grind but it's not fun when those selfish PVPr's don't help out with the RVR war. Traders hate PVP, it's not fun when they get PK'd.
This is a niche game, people that aren't flexible in their gameplay style won't find this game that attractive over the long run unless they change. This game is more directed towards people that aren't classified as just PvPers, or PvErs. If you don't enjoy the multiple aspects of the game you aren't playing the game the way it was designed. So it is no wonder that some people are disappointed in this game, but it isn't because of the game itself, it is because their playstyle is incompatible with this type of niche game. It isn't a mainstream game and it isn't meant to attract the mainstream style of play.

[Garbad_the_Weak]

I have a better idea.

We could have red zones removed from the game so pvpers can fight only with those that self flag, I can live with that. That way FT's and PvErs could PvE without PvP annoyance and dealing with twich kids who sit on the game for ten hours straight.

And that being said I think dedicated PvP and PvE servers might be a good idea, with first group having permanent red zones and pvp flags with disabled ship durability and second one having consentual pvp when both sides are flagged only.Twitch kids? Are we even playing the same game?

[Captain Lackey]

We had 4 full groups working Turtling for 8 hours before it flipped and only made like 5-10k per person in all that time. That is a huge amount of time and man power to dedicate.

4*6*7500=180000 in a day.

Does that count loot drops? Raw materials and manufactured goods?

[jadedduck1]

Is it just me, or is making 50 people work and only paying 25 really dumb? Same with SoLs.

[johnnyjet]

This is a niche game, people that aren't flexible in their gameplay style won't find this game that attractive over the long run unless they change. This game is more directed towards people that aren't classified as just PvPers, or PvErs. If you don't enjoy the multiple aspects of the game you aren't playing the game the way it was designed. So it is no wonder that some people are disappointed in this game, but it isn't because of the game itself, it is because their playstyle is incompatible with this type of niche game. It isn't a mainstream game and it isn't meant to attract the mainstream style of play.

I would agree with Sam's comments. I think the current game will not be attractive over the long run to people who DO consider themselves PVPr's. I hope FLS will look at ways to change that, instead of saying change your playstyle or leave. This game is not for you. I hope there are things that can be done down the road, that's why ideas like a separate PVP server have been mentioned many times.

I haven't seen the DEVS weigh in on this, do they really consider it a niche game not meant to attract a mainstream style of play? Are they unwilling to improve the game for people who do not want to experience the multiple aspects you mention. Just curious if you have any links or quotes that you can provide on this.

[xTekx]

I would agree with Sam's comments. I think the current game will not be attractive over the long run to people who DO consider themselves PVPr's. I hope FLS will look at ways to change that, instead of saying change your playstyle or leave. This game is not for you. I hope there are things that can be done down the road, that's why ideas like a separate PVP server have been mentioned many times.

I haven't seen the DEVS weigh in on this, do they really consider it a niche game not meant to attract a mainstream style of play? Are they unwilling to improve the game for people who do not want to experience the multiple aspects you mention. Just curious if you have any links or quotes that you can provide on this.

Changing the game to chase "possible" subscribers is a recipe for disaster. All you have to do is look at what happened with SWG. The more they changed the more the current players dissappeared.

So yes, what Spinnaker said is correct. Niche game. People are going to love it or hate it. If you hate it then leave. Don't advicate change on a working design.

[jadedduck1]

Changing the game to chase "possible" subscribers is a recipe for disaster. All you have to do is look at what happened with SWG. The more they changed the more the current players dissappeared.

So yes, what Spinnaker said is correct. Niche game. People are going to love it or hate it. If you hate it then leave. Don't advicate change on a working design.

Please do not make ludicrious comparisons between allowing Pvpers to pvp without spending 8 hours killing npcs and completly destroying a game. The proposed changes are not similar to any way with the NGE.

[Detritus]

Changing the game to chase "possible" subscribers is a recipe for disaster. All you have to do is look at what happened with SWG. The more they changed the more the current players dissappeared.


There isn't any "possible" about it. We've already seen this in beta when it only took 2 hours to grind up a zone. It is a repetitive and boring task that burns people out very fast.

[SWBgHz]

4 full groups aren't supposed to be able to put a port into unrest easily. The devs want it to be a national effort, not a small team effort.

On most servers 4 full groups would represent a substantial portion of the online population so it is a valid complaint.

I would agree with Sam's comments. I think the current game will not be attractive over the long run to people who DO consider themselves PVPr's. I hope FLS will look at ways to change that, instead of saying change your playstyle or leave. This game is not for you. I hope there are things that can be done down the road, that's why ideas like a separate PVP server have been mentioned many times.

I haven't seen the DEVS weigh in on this, do they really consider it a niche game not meant to attract a mainstream style of play? Are they unwilling to improve the game for people who do not want to experience the multiple aspects you mention. Just curious if you have any links or quotes that you can provide on this.

Niche is one thing - unpopulated is another. Not to get off subject but as this is an argument (the OP) that goes back to closed beta I think it is time that it be acknowledged that the 'it is niche' excuse for things people don't like is not cutting it. the game has to be able to attract a viable audience and many of these core arguments (PvE grinding to get PvP, economy, and others) where always answered with the 'wait for live' and
but it is niche' arguments and now we are live and the game is struggling to get a few hundred people per server. Do you think niche equates to 9 servers struggling to attract 500 or so people and one or two servers with 850 to 1000 people and think that is in any way viable?

Niche is one thing - DOA is another - it is time some concessions are made to give the game a chance at attracting a niche audience. I am not suggesting a WoW clone revamp - but the 'it is niche' argument to valid points like the OP has to stop.

[xTekx]

Please do not make ludicrious comparisons between allowing Pvpers to pvp without spending 8 hours killing npcs and completly destroying a game. The proposed changes are not similar to any way with the NGE.

But who says that changing the time it takes to put a port in contention is the only way to address teh issue?

If there were more people on the servers then you'd have more people doing contention missions, killing npc's for contention, pvp'ing, etc. That would up the amount of contention points being aquired over x amount of time. So you would have PvP faster.

The beta contention was shorter because things were being tested. We're live now. More people = better game experience. More people = better contention battles.

It may not be an NGE change, but change for the sake of change this early in the game does not necessarily mean it's going to make things better. I'm sure there are reasons that contention is at the pace it's supposed to be at. We just haven't figured it out yet.

[xTekx]

There isn't any "possible" about it. We've already seen this in beta when it only took 2 hours to grind up a zone. It is a repetitive and boring task that burns people out very fast.

I addressed your responce in the post above. :)

[xTekx]

Niche is one thing - DOA is another - it is time some concessions are made to give the game a chance at attracting a niche audience. I am not suggesting a WoW clone revamp - but the 'it is niche' argument to valid points like the OP has to stop.

Jesus... we haven't even gone through week 1 of being officially live and you're saying FLS should just scrap things?

For those of you who played JTL in SWG, Kessel was designed as a PvP zone. The master mission was in the zone. However within 2 weeks the devs axed the PvP zone because "carebears" cried till they were literally out of breath. Two weeks into the game it got changed. And JTL then had a very low population after that. To me the low space population was due to Kessel being changed from the original design. That design was to help promote space and interaction in space. And it was doing just that in the 2 weeks it was live. But after that space just dwindled to the diehards.

Don't change things just because you don't like how things are at the moment.

Doom and gloom! Booyah.

[jadedduck1]

But who says that changing the time it takes to put a port in contention is the only way to address teh issue?

If there were more people on the servers then you'd have more people doing contention missions, killing npc's for contention, pvp'ing, etc. That would up the amount of contention points being aquired over x amount of time. So you would have PvP faster.

The beta contention was shorter because things were being tested. We're live now. More people = better game experience. More people = better contention battles.

Lets bring in 8 full groups for 48 people to flip a port. Those 48 people can work for 4 hours, and half of them don't get paid! In fact, because some people will be gaining points after its flipped, its likely more than half of them wont get paid. Having 48 people grind and only rewarding 24 of them is ASININE. Therefore, either 48 invites need to be sent out, or 24 people should be able to flip a port without wanting to cut themselves.


It may not be an NGE change, but change for the sake of change this early in the game does not necessarily mean it's going to make things better. I'm sure there are reasons that contention is at the pace it's supposed to be at. We just haven't figured it out yet.
That is just silly. We have plenty of reasons to make the change, so if the reason to not make a change is hidden, it is more than likely nonexistant, because trust me, a lot of people in beta don't half *** this game.

[SWBgHz]

We have been through barely populated beta, barely populated open beta, barely populated pre boarding and now a barely populated premier - exactly what can we say the playing public finds these things unfun? It is doom and gloom to see things going pretty poorly and say - hey, things are going pretty poorly. Enough with the 'wait until X' and 'it is niche' excuses - the game is not attracting people and many of these long argued issues are why.

[jadedduck1]

To me the low space population was due to Kessel being changed from the original design.

You have no evidence to support that so that kinda makes your whole post null.

[HalleckFeydakin]

They might consider making it percentage based instead of a hard number. Then just use server populations (and nation populations maybe as well?) in the formula for determining how much contention is needed to flip a port... This should allow for easier tweaking and refining of how many contention points are needed...


just a thought

[xTekx]

You have no evidence to support that so that kinda makes your whole post null.

There is no evidence because the game wasn't allowed to grow with the original designs. The only thing that could be said is that Kessel was rockin at the beginning. But at the same time it was a new game. However we have seen what JTL is like with out Kessel being a PvP zone. What would JTL have been with a Kessel PvP zone? /ponders

Its' a moot discussion on Kessel because even if they changed it back it wouldn't change the population of space.

[xTekx]

We have been through barely populated beta, barely populated open beta, barely populated pre boarding and now a barely populated premier - exactly what can we say the playing public finds these things unfun? It is doom and gloom to see things going pretty poorly and say - hey, things are going pretty poorly. Enough with the 'wait until X' and 'it is niche' excuses - the game is not attracting people and many of these long argued issues are why.

You're right. Three days into live shows the game is a failure because ports are take too long to flip. /gasp

[xTekx]

Lets bring in 8 full groups for 48 people to flip a port. Those 48 people can work for 4 hours, and half of them don't get paid! In fact, because some people will be gaining points after its flipped, its likely more than half of them wont get paid. Having 48 people grind and only rewarding 24 of them is ASININE. Therefore, either 48 invites need to be sent out, or 24 people should be able to flip a port without wanting to cut themselves.

Is this only port battles now? You have a whole red circle to PvP in should enemies come by. More people in game would make more chances for you to engage someone. Just because only 25 invites go out per side doesn't mean that is a problem.

I'm still of the opinion that more people will solve some of these problems that people have a problem with. But, i'm just a new guy who only played a little bit of open Beta. /shrug


That is just silly. We have plenty of reasons to make the change, so if the reason to not make a change is hidden, it is more than likely nonexistant, because trust me, a lot of people in beta don't half *** this game.

Change for the sake of change is never a good thing. We're still only in the 3rd day of live. If we get more people then things may change.

[Fatebringer]

You're right. Three days into live shows the game is a failure because ports are take too long to flip. /gasp

No, but 3 days in and your "core audience" is complaining about the part of the game that is supposed to be their focus isnt a good sign.

We should be in the "oh man this is awesome" stage for at least another 2 weeks.

[SWBgHz]

You're right. Three days into live shows the game is a failure because ports are take too long to flip. /gasp

/gasp yourself

I didn't say three days into live shows it as a failure, I said that now we reach another milestone and populations are dog crap again (just like in closed beta, open beta, and pre boarding) we have to look at things and ask why so few people are responding to the choices made to date.

For months a few of us have been pointing issues like the OP, and others, and remarking that they are not going to be well received with the gaming public. And each milestone along the way where people come in staggeringly low numbers people make excuses - it is time to quit with the excuses and acknowledge there are some things about the game that are being rejected and consider alternatives.

No, but 3 days in and your "core audience" is complaining about the part of the game that is supposed to be their focus isnt a good sign.

We should be in the "oh man this is awesome" stage for at least another 2 weeks.

Very true - also noteworthy how small this core group is.

[HayesJ]

I find it amazing that so many people keep ignoring the many times repeated quite true statement.. that most ports dont HAVE npcs for more than 4 groups if even that many.. so more players will not help when there arent any more ships to kill

[jadedduck1]

bump
74444445

[SWBgHz]

I find it amazing that so many people keep ignoring the many times repeated quite true statement.. that most ports dont HAVE npcs for more than 4 groups if even that many.. so more players will not help when there arent any more ships to kill

I agree this is often an issue - back in the day when the points where lower and the cool off slower it what not really a big issue. But with the new system I think it is a particularly troublesome truth.

Take Irish Point or the other ports around that area - very easy to build contention there because it is a high volume area and since most NPCs are high level it is profitable in terms of XP as well. But go to the French port just North of Havana (the island port, cannot recall the name) and it is very hard to build there because there is so little traffic there at all. Even Havana itself has a ton less traffic than an area like Port de Pais or Irish Point.

Perhaps the solution is a customized cool off rate for the ports based on their traffic volume - I am sure the DEVs has easy access to knowing which ports have heavy NPC volume and which are light. Or as someone else suggested a cool off that is weighted to nation population in some way, although I think the former is better since it would reflect the ease or difficulty of garnering the contention as it is in the game.

[Envoy]

Perhaps the solution is a customized cool off rate for the ports based on their traffic volume - I am sure the DEVs has easy access to knowing which ports have heavy NPC volume and which are light. Or as someone else suggested a cool off that is weighted to nation population in some way, although I think the former is better since it would reflect the ease or difficulty of garnering the contention as it is in the game.

By volume and level of NPC traffic, this is what I want.

Contention gain is OK imo if this is addressed.

[jadedduck1]

By volume and level of NPC traffic, this is what I want.

Contention gain is OK imo if this is addressed.

No it is not, because then you have people getting screwed out of the final battle. If this is acceptable to you, will LBT flip the ports and not accept invites? No, I am not serious, becuase I know the answer is no.

If 24 people can flip a port in a reasonable ammount of time, then the system will be OK. Or, closed beta.

[Detritus]

Niche is one thing - DOA is another - it is time some concessions are made to give the game a chance at attracting a niche audience. I am not suggesting a WoW clone revamp - but the 'it is niche' argument to valid points like the OP has to stop.

Yea the response "it is niche" is only an answer to why this game will not spread via word of mouth. I cannot recommend the game to my friends (especially to a couple of whom I recommended GW... ouch) knowing that they will encounter the kind of bs we're seeing.

This game could be plenty successful as a niche Naval Combat MMO. 200 people (concurrent) per side per server works out really well, so it doesn't need to be selling millions of copies. But, as has been pointed out by others, the DEVs need to acknowledge that we are now past the "wait until it is live" milestone and there are serious issues that need to be addressed immediately.

I cannot emphasize enough how bored of contention grinding you're going to get very quickly. In a month we'll be seeing a lot of level 50s, and all of these level 50s will have spent a lot of time grinding NPCs for XP and Royals. Now they're battle ready are only interested in PVPing (because even those of us that are tolerant of PVE will no longer have any rewards for doing so). In beta at 50 just grinding NPCs for 2 hours to create contention was enough to send many folks packing. The solution to this is not to make it take 8 hours! I recall reading one of the Dev's response to this which was "well when it is live people will have a greater investment since they will have spent money on the box and will not want to cut their losses; so why bother fixing it?".

I think writing off $50 makes more sense than spending $15/mo to play a game that forces your playstyle to be heavily weighted with mundane and boring tasks (Yes the AI is pretty impressive, but it is still not as challenging/fun/exciting as PVP). You either write off $50 as a a loss or you accept further losses at $15/mo. So let us say I sit here hoping the Devs do something for 3 months ($45), and then at the end of that time they make some half-assed-neither-side-is-happy compromise. Now if I left before the first month I'd only have been out $50 but by sticking around I'm now out $95.

I sincerely love the Naval PVP in this game, the pace and scale of combat can provide the most tactical PVP available anywhere. I want to love this game, but when the part I love is mechanically forced into a smaller and smaller duration I don't see how I can.

[ummax]

Thats a great theory, but it is just a theory. In reality that doesn't happen. Theres no traders shipping in goods, or pvers killing npcs. It is PVPers killing npcs and shipping in goods to get their pvp. Pvers can run missions and get a lil storyline and rewards...why farm on the OS? Real merchants sell their goods, not throw them away for PvPers.


I spent 4 hours last night shipping in goods and creating contention and i'm not known for liking pvp. I think youwill find that therea re those that are willing to help. However there is always this "us and them" attitude. Which truly is driving rifts through the player communities.

Its pretty hard to read and/or listen to people say that pvp'ers should get all the kudos and rewards because they are the only ones that are doing the work. This is untrue and doesn't work that way often where I come from. Some of us have spent small fortunes in the last few days doing exactly what you say doesn't happen and given our time and effort into creating red zones that most of us hate having but realize itsa part of the game. Its time for the divisions to stop and realizing that others do help. Some thank yous would also be nice from time to time but i only got thanked once and it was in closed beta even though I hate red zones I helped anyhow.

[keline]

If you think, "it's a niche" is a valid argument, you might as well say "perhaps this game is not for you" and move the hell back to BMQ and Vanguard.

[Calendyr]

I haven't seen more than 16 people on at any time on my server. So that means that unless people start to buy this game, we will never even have a chance to play the game correctly.

I have 3 hours to play on the night I play. I have a life and cannot be on 8 to 12 hours a day to put a port into contention. This is the only aspect of the game I found to be of any real interest because let's face it, after playing for 3 weeks and having done over 500 battles... it gets a little repetitive!

I have 3 more weeks to decide if this one is worth to pay a monthly fee for, but from the total lack of interest reflected by the inexistant server population, I highly doubt it.

Where can I see servers starts? Some people post server populations from time to time. Only way I found so far is doing a /who and it only lists British players on the server.

[jadedduck1]

I spent 4 hours last night shipping in goods and creating contention and i'm not known for liking pvp. I think youwill find that therea re those that are willing to help. However there is always this "us and them" attitude. Which truly is driving rifts through the player communities.

Its pretty hard to read and/or listen to people say that pvp'ers should get all the kudos and rewards because they are the only ones that are doing the work. This is untrue and doesn't work that way often where I come from. Some of us have spent small fortunes in the last few days doing exactly what you say doesn't happen and given our time and effort into creating red zones that most of us hate having but realize itsa part of the game. Its time for the divisions to stop and realizing that others do help. Some thank yous would also be nice from time to time but i only got thanked once and it was in closed beta even though I hate red zones I helped anyhow.
You are the exception. The point still stands, sorry. The point still stands because unless you have 4 accounts, and are pushing a port up to 5k on every nation on every server, for every port that is flipped, there is still a problem.

[Nuleren]

Big misconception here. YOU CANNOT BRING A PORT TO PORT BATTLE STATUS WITH MISSIONS OR TRADE_INS. The rebel agent will NOT talk to you once 6K unrest has been achieved. Even if you Do use the hand-ins to help build contention, the final leg remains a grind.


This is not 100% true. The trade-ins stop when the port enters the first stage of PvP contention. It seems when the port hits 6k there is a short amount of time, 1min or so, before the port actually enters the first stage of PvP. So theoretically (if you're fast enough) you can do turn-ins up to 10k.

I just witnessed the Spanish on Guadaloupe bring Jaqueme up to 8760 from 0 completely with turn-ins.

This, imo, is broken to the point that I might call it an exploit. The fact that a side can bring a port to almost 10k in about 5 minutes without the chance of any resistance is just stupid. The turn-in quests should, at the very least, have a timer on them!

[Spinnaker Sam]

I'm not wholly convinced that turn-ins are necessarily a problem. People had two weeks to store up all the materials they need for these turn-ins and so I have to wonder if there is an excess of goods that people are using for these rapid point jumps. Once these these reserves are consumed will they be able to maintain the rate of turn-ins? This very well may be an effect of the servers just starting up and will become less influential as the servers mature.

[kab]

This is one game where PvPers have to work to create their playground, they aren't going to have them handed to them like children.

I worked. I got money. I bought a game. Now I have to spend a full work day doing a tedious and boring task just to get to the entertainment? I don't think the word "game" means what you think it means.

[johnnyjet]

I worked. I got money. I bought a game. Now I have to spend a full work day doing a tedious and boring task just to get to the entertainment? I don't think the word "game" means what you think it means.

"This is one game where PvPers have to work to create their playground, they aren't going to have them handed to them like children." from Spinnaker Sam.

Yeah Sam has this consistent hate thing about PVPr's. You know, you want to play the game, then you are gonna have to grind, too bad for you, and you better like it.

As if somehow that logic will make PVP'rs love grinding boring quests and that will keep them in here for the long haul.

If nothing changes, hardcore PVPr's will most certainly be the first group that will desert the game. Sam would be delighted, not sure how FLS will feel about it.

I just hope that somewhere in the FLS to do lists they have some plans to improve the PVP experience. Even if that means a separate PVP server where no Spinnaker Sam's will tread.

[Spinnaker Sam]

Funny how I have no problem doing PvE in order to create PvP opportunity. You see, I don't hate PvP. I don't hate PvPers, I just hate their attitudes at times. I do seek out PvP because I do enjoy it. I also know that to enjoy THIS game you have to be able to enjoy both aspects of the game. Pure PvPers in this game are really just acting like lazy, parasites (It's that attitude again, not the player) if they don't get involved in creating the PvP zones they want to play in. This game is really geared towards the more balanced player, not the extremes of being solely a PvPer or PvEr.

I don't see patrolling a port attacking NPCs as a necessary grind to get something else. I see it as a enjoyable aspect of the game, that opens up further content through PvP. It is unfortunate that some people can't make that leap themselves, and instead resort to whining and ad hominim attacks.

[jadedduck1]

Funny how I have no problem doing PvE in order to create PvP opportunity. You see, I don't hate PvP. I don't hate PvPers, I just hate their attitudes at times. I do seek out PvP because I do enjoy it. I also know that to enjoy THIS game you have to be able to enjoy both aspects of the game. Pure PvPers in this game are really just acting like lazy, parasites (It's that attitude again, not the player) if they don't get involved in creating the PvP zones they want to play in. This game is really geared towards the more balanced player, not the extremes of being solely a PvPer or PvEr.

I don't see patrolling a port attacking NPCs as a necessary grind to get something else. I see it as a enjoyable aspect of the game, that opens up further content through PvP. It is unfortunate that some people can't make that leap themselves, and instead resort to whining and ad hominim attacks.
Sam, I am willing to grind NPCs to flip a port. Grinding them for ****ing hours, and not even getting into the ****ing port battle, is ********.

[SWBgHz]

The problem with the system SpinSam, and the problem with your defense of it, is that you are telling PvP people they MUST grind PvE but the game follows the almighty 'non non consensual PvP rule' allowing merchants and PvE people to completely avoid PvP if they so choose.

[P. Pete]

I'm still of the opinion that more people will solve some of these problems that people have a problem with. But, i'm just a new guy who only played a little bit of open Beta. /shrug

Turtling bay and similar areas don't even have enough NPCS to keep 2 groups busy.

remember the NPCs must be within 50 miles, 50 miles isn't much.

[SWBgHz]

I have always thought the 50 mile thing made no sense.

[Hamilkar]

I always thought that in all this whine there might be some cheese.

[ThomasSmith]

Short of cheese at the moment. Plantations are busy on hemp. Okay for wine though.

Saw this weekend:

Two Brit PvE groups covered by a PvP squadron pushing up contention at FdF. Spanish, French and Pirate PvP groups wading in and merchants legging it through. PvP for hours.

Turtling bay pushed into contention pretty much instantly by the spanish using block delivery missions, presumably with lots of alts. Solo and small group opportunist PvP/PvE squads kiteing the circle, heavier groups showing up once the pickings got juicy.

Both happy hunting times needed good, organised and respected nation or large society leadership to get the producers, PvE and PvP all pointed the same way for long enough to get the circles up. Am happy to produce, PvE and PvP as needed but am more economy heavy so am likely to get pwnd by the l33t d00dz in an even match. Still fight you tho if my hold is fairly empty ;)

Thing I really like about PotBS, compared to all the other MMOs that have wasted too much of my life is that this time, is that as I am lumbering through the circle with an atlas full of rum, two spreadheets and a subsription to database mathematics monthly up on my second monitor, I am really, really happy to have some pizza addicted caffiene high 12 year old with three digits in his all caps user name and an uber-refit-gankmobile looking for a fight and incidentally covering my ***. Need to keep giving these poeple circles to fight in, even if it means levelling more slowly or having less spare cash. They should not need to do it themselves - they will get bored and we will have no cover.

2 dbl spent. Stereotypes have been changed to protect the innocent.

[Serat]

The economics of the production system really require alot of pvp to maintain market demand. Eventually, the traders may start to realize this and be willing to produce the relatively expensive turn-ins to get ports to pirate contention stage. However, even they will not want to do that if getting to full pvp cannot occur because the dynamic spawning system is insufficient to produce enough high level npcs to get the job done.

Personally, I don't think contention should ever decay naturally. Make it true realm warfare, so if one side wants to remove the contention, they have to work just as hard as the parties adding to it. That includes the traders inconvenienced by the circles, who will have a greater incentive to produce trade-ins.

If you are a trader, you should be wanting vigorous pvp battles in this game. A more dynamic game, with ports flipping back and forth constantly, will be better for everyone.

[Envoy]

No it is not, because then you have people getting screwed out of the final battle. If this is acceptable to you, will LBT flip the ports and not accept invites? No, I am not serious, becuase I know the answer is no.

If 24 people can flip a port in a reasonable ammount of time, then the system will be OK. Or, closed beta.

Do we even know how the general contention points are scaling? TBH I don't even know how they work, nor have I seen em work, I got about 150 now having been excluded from the past 3 port battles myself.

I really think that over all, we need to work into a set system of zone control for the larger and more active societies to give everyone a chance in. But I don't think that will be all that effective untill we are all feilding a good number of level 50s.

Problem there in, is that the only zone will be the antilles, as the smaller outlying ports are just too much of a pain in the *** to contend at the rate points decay and are accumulated.


Another thing to weigh, is that pound for pound econ turn ins at the rebel agent provide so much more unrest than sinking npcs. So in that aspect, you can better garuntee spots at key ports by priming them ahead of time. The econ stuff isn't just for FTs.

I'm not saying that there won't be holes in the system regardless. Endgame, I just have to wonder if the problems aren't going to be much different then they are now, and if FLS can even bend enough to support the societys vs the common player.

[Valeroth]

Removed comment.

[Ravenau deLusan]

Sam, I am willing to grind NPCs to flip a port. Grinding them for ****ing hours, and not even getting into the ****ing port battle, is ********.You knew it was a lottery system. No one gets a guaranteed slot. What you seem to want is a system that allows 24 players to flip a port in a hour or two and for those same 24 to get into the battle. That's just not going to happen.

There is a consolation prize. If you don't get in a given port battle those points you earned are still available for the next port battle at that particular port. That's for those of us who can't play for 8 solid hours and may have to accumulate points over several contentions before we have a realistic shot at getting in.

[Wintersdark]

All I can say is that I find it enormously frusterating that it requires so much time to push a port into contention. If it only has lower level or lighter traffic, it's nearly impossible. I don't mind helping out to create PvP zones, but it's the PvP I want to be doing. I'm a fairly casual player, and as a rule 2 hours is how much I can play in a day.

As things are now, I'm spending ALL that time helping with contention, but we're still not seeing PvP zones. At best, we get one or two which only exist briefly. PvP is disturbingly difficult to find. Port battles? Good luck getting into one of those. You need to devote many, many hours to senseless, heinously boring NPC grinding - a process that requires at least twice as many people as can get into the port battle - and then hope you can be online when the port battle is scheduled AND that you'll get an invite.

And no, flagging doesn't help. Flagging doesn't allow me to solo hunt - my favourite PvP, it only allows me to sail around and wait to get ganked. Yay.

The contention process, as it is right now, is NOT fun. You shouldn't have to work(and it's work) to even be able to PvP.

[logicstrike]

they need to do something about conention rates now