Society Warehouses, In Deed

[Majestic]

Originally Posted by ozziefudd Majestic -- Above statement sure sounds like two different prices, one for CC members and one for others. So, no, you don't have to pay real money for them.

i never said u had to pay real money for them. I said u have to pay real money for captains club items...

[Joseph Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Majestic Captains Club only items means you have to pay real money to access them.

There are very few Captains Club only items. New content does get released to Captains Club only at first, but then released to everybody, so yes you may have to wait a bit longer before you can get it for free, but you can eventually get it.

Something I would like to see is captains club membership purchasable with BSP so much like EVE you could buy subscription time with in game money.

Back on topic, 2k for a deed is reasonable, that works out to $20 a warehouse. When we were paying it was $14 a month each, so $20 one off per society is more than fair.

[Seolenmina]

This might be wrong place to ask this, but what will be FLS policy towards society thieves? Is society thievery allowed or can u open a ticket if someone cleans your society warehouse?

Iam sure first soc thieves appear short after introduction of society warehouses and in large societies the thieves are likely to be able to rob assets worth tens of millions of doubloons.

Incase the society thievery is allowed some sort of warehouse log should exist to track down the thief.

[ozziefudd]

Based on my experiences in other MMOG's, you should NOT rely on FLS to protect your society's assets. Each society MUST take responsibility for guarding its own assets.

That is why I am so obsessive in asking for robust society tools to define not only various roles and levels within a society, but also for the ability to somehow limit withdrawals from society warehouses by characters of various trust levels.

Given the ease of creating alt characters, it would be easy for a "pirate" to create six characters and insinuate them into a society. By developing one character and "playing nice" for a while, he could gradually get ALL his characters up to a trust level that would allow him to clean out much of a society's warehouses, UNLESS, there are some serious compartmentalizations and limits to withdrawal.

For this reason, it would very very foolish for a society to establish merely ONE warehouse and give each of its members unfettered access to it. Such a policy is an invitation to looting. And such an invitation will be quickly accepted by someone.

Further, many societies will try to regulate their warehouses by "rules" written by the society. These "rules" will be useless. They will be as effective as a "rule" that states "Ganking is prohibited". Most of you should have experienced how well THAT rule worked before FLS started to code various restrictions into the game.

AT A MINIMUM, access to each society warehouse should be controlled by:
1) YES/NO access for each role defined by a society;
2) number of items that role can remove from the warehouse each period (day? hour?)
3) entry of each transfer (to or from) onto a log that can be read by any society member (more of an audit function than an access control, but very important)

Those permissions will be sufficient, combined with the planned ability to build multiple society warehouses in a port, to allow societies to segregate their items by value, use, level, or other such division; and to control how much of the contents can be taken at one time by one character. There are other controls that could be emplaced to aid flexibility, but the above are a MINIMUM.

However, until FLS enables some sort of account tracking (which few other such games have done to my knowledge), it will be impossible to guard a warehouse against looting by different characters from the same account -- unless they are known to the society ahead of time. And there are enough people with multiple accounts so that account tracking might be more trouble than it's worth.

Note that there will be A LOT of sentiment in each society to "trust" the members, and to make restrictions minimal. This is a road to disaster. Think a bit about how well you "vet" new members, how active each member is in society activities, how many members still on your list haven't been in-game in a while, etc. It's very easy for a player to fake sincerity and commitment for a short period, but harder over an extended period of months when they are playing with you all the time. And of course many players have multiple accounts, with multiple alts, not all of which are revealed to you.

A result of the forgoing is that it seems unlikely to me that a society would have only one warehouse in a port. In fact, I would suspect that my own society will need at least 10 or 15 warehouses spread through several ports to be the sort of society we want to be. In general, as a society's desire to help new players learn the game, engage in PvP, engage in RvR, engage in econ play, and engage in shipbuilding increases, the number of society warehouses supporting each of those functions will increase. Thus, the cumulative cost of multiple 2000-BSP-warehouses will be significant even to larger societies.

[Joseph Fletcher]

Yeah be careful who you give access to, to be fair to FLS that's pretty much the only way they can run things. Don't give someone access to shared warehouses unless you trust them. That's true of every MMO.

[Fripwud]

also thievery, Infiltration, sabotage, etc. is part of RP .

[ozziefudd]

Originally Posted by Fripwud also thievery, Infiltration, sabotage, etc. is part of RP .

Uhhhhhh ... riiiiight.

Just as is appearing in an enemy's port battle as one of your alts in a small ship that spends its time ramming ships on that side and getting in their way so that your REAL character's side can win more easily.

[Fripwud]

Originally Posted by ozziefudd Uhhhhhh ... riiiiight. Just as is appearing in an enemy's port battle as one of your alts in a small ship that spends its time ramming ships on that side and getting in their way so that your REAL character's side can win more easily.

thats a different thing. Using 2 chars of different nations at the same time is not allowed - at least not in pvp.

But to infiltrate a society e.g. is a normal thing, which takes place in RL, in history and also in MMOs. In EvE online e.g. one of the biggest and strongest clans at all have been infiltrated over an amount of time of apprx. 2 years, until the infiltrator got enough trust to achieve an officer status within the clan and got access to critical clan functions. He abused that to destroy the clan more or less. It's kind of terrorism or sabotage like it happens in real world, played in a virtual game.

Stealing of influence e.g. already happened in game, its the same with that. Same in RL, if you give your bank account data or credit card info to everyone, you don't know well enough, it's your own fault, if your bank account is empty suddenly.

Of course if you are the victim, you don't like it, but from an objective point of view I find such things in online games interesting. And of course the game running company must not interfere in such matters - its just real deep role playing

[Coffey]

Originally Posted by Paul_kingtiger BSN can be bought on the auction house so you don't have to pay real money. Simply earn doubloons in game then buy the BSN from the AH. There has yet to be a single in game item that couldn't be bought either from the AH or via BSN bought on the AH. So yeah, can still be enjoyed by all wallet sizes.

So where do the BSN that are on the AH come from? Is there a BSN quest reward?, or is it a rare loot drop? Oh now I remember a BSN receipe

Recipe Book: Diary of an Impoverished Dev Team
Structure: Bank
Labor: 12 hour(s)
Cost: 0 dbs
Inputs: Rum: 16
Tobacco: 8
Wallet Sized Credit Card: 1
Outputs: Burning Sea Note: 1

[Fripwud]

Originally Posted by Coffey So where do the BSN that are on the AH come from? Is there a BSN quest reward?, or is it a rare loot drop? Oh now I remember a BSN receipe Recipe Book: Diary of an Impoverished Dev Team Structure: Bank Labor: 12 hour(s) Cost: 0 dbs Inputs: Rum: 16 Tobacco: 8 Wallet Sized Credit Card: 1 Outputs: Burning Sea Note: 1

calm down dude, nothing is for free in life excpet death, and even that one cost your life!

But still, you can buy BSN from AH, no matter where they came from, you can play for free, if you want. But of course it will be a different game experience, if you pay or not.

You can also go to work by foot instead of by car, bus, train, whatever. Would safe you lots of money, but hey - of course it will take you longer, you would have to get up earlier in the morning in order to not come late etc. etc. etc... And even then, who built the streets, you are walking for free? Which wallet size did finance that one?

Questions over questions...