Nerf break rudder

[Not Primetime]

Originally Posted by t3chn0m0dj0 How? On Roberts, out of 10 fights, at least 8 are against a Sleek Herc or a Vengeance. So at some point against NOs CTs or Privs you will end up being rudder crippled. The only way to avoid that is having full wind.

shhh.... move along nothing to see here, move along.

[C G Wrangel]

Originally Posted by Capitane Jean By all means, a (sailboat) is highly dependant on it's rudder for manouverability (Note however that a rowboat, for example, is not - in fact, does not even have a rudder). However, boats in all honour, we're talking tall ships here. The rear spanker (or lateen sail in this era) and the bowspirit are more influential than the rudder. It's these that counterbalance each other and turns the ship around. Rudder is used for minor adjusments. Here, let me detail to all you landlubbers how a tall ship is turned. My terminology is in swedish, so exuse my lack of the proper naval terms. With the wind, you manouver the Mainsail and all sails rearward so that they do not produce any lift. The forward sails will cause the front end of the ship to align in the direction of the wind. Against the wind: via the use of the spanker and loosening of the forward sails go get the ship's rear to align itself with the wind, then when you're dead in the wind, you keep the mizzen sail at an angle that will push the front end of the ship out of the wind, while the front staysails (or the bowspirits sail's in 1720) are also aligned as soon as possible. toghether they pull the ship out of dead to windward, and during this time, the mainsail has been prepped to catch the wind on the new heading. As soon as it does, you turn the mizzen sail to the new tack and your'e off. After these manouvers, the deck is of course cleared and the rig balanced to keep straight on the new course. Indeed, if the sails aren't balanced, the rudder will not be usable. The rudder is of course used, simply because it would be stupid not to (unless destroyed). However, if you'd let the sails be, and just turn the rudder, you would turn very slowly. Just look at a period rudder till, used until just about this era when the steerign wheel was introduced. All the centuries prior to that, a ship was manouvered via a whipstaff, that allowed for couple of degrees to each side. The wheel offered slightly more, but due to the lenght of the till, not much... http://i15.tinypic.com/6ta9v8l.jpg

Navigare necesse est vivere non est necesse

[dsaur2]

Originally Posted by Capitane Jean By all means, a (sailboat) is highly dependant on it's rudder for manouverability (Note however that a rowboat, for example, is not - in fact, does not even have a rudder). However, boats in all honour, we're talking tall ships here. The rear spanker (or lateen sail in this era) and the bowspirit are more influential than the rudder. It's these that counterbalance each other and turns the ship around. Rudder is used for minor adjusments. Here, let me detail to all you landlubbers how a tall ship is turned. My terminology is in swedish, so exuse my lack of the proper naval terms. With the wind, you manouver the Mainsail and all sails rearward so that they do not produce any lift. The forward sails will cause the front end of the ship to align in the direction of the wind. Against the wind: via the use of the spanker and loosening of the forward sails go get the ship's rear to align itself with the wind, then when you're dead in the wind, you keep the mizzen sail at an angle that will push the front end of the ship out of the wind, while the front staysails (or the bowspirits sail's in 1720) are also aligned as soon as possible. toghether they pull the ship out of dead to windward, and during this time, the mainsail has been prepped to catch the wind on the new heading. As soon as it does, you turn the mizzen sail to the new tack and your'e off. After these manouvers, the deck is of course cleared and the rig balanced to keep straight on the new course. Indeed, if the sails aren't balanced, the rudder will not be usable. The rudder is of course used, simply because it would be stupid not to (unless destroyed). However, if you'd let the sails be, and just turn the rudder, you would turn very slowly. Just look at a period rudder till, used until just about this era when the steerign wheel was introduced. All the centuries prior to that, a ship was manouvered via a whipstaff, that allowed for couple of degrees to each side. The wheel offered slightly more, but due to the lenght of the till, not much... http://i15.tinypic.com/6ta9v8l.jpg

For the amount of work you put in this post... and you are still so very wrong. A rudderless ship will be unsteerable.

[arya]

back to topic: yes that skilll should be nerfed. and i second charlotte: the NO is the last class that needs nerfing for a 1on1

[Ships Be Sunk]

Originally Posted by arya back to topic: yes that skilll should be nerfed. and i second charlotte: the NO is the last class that needs nerfing for a 1on1

wait what? the NO is one of the better 1v1 classes you just have to use it right. A.k.a not speccing for full escort line

[Samuel Vuur]

Originally Posted by t3chn0m0dj0 How? On Roberts, out of 10 fights, at least 8 are against a Sleek Herc or a Vengeance. So at some point against NOs CTs or Privs you will end up being rudder crippled. The only way to avoid that is having full wind.

Just nerf or remove the boring slerc ... getting sick of it -.-

[Totmes LeGaard]

Originally Posted by Samuel Vuur Just nerf or remove the boring slerc ... getting sick of it -.-

I guess you Prefer your Dountles Sam..

Originally Posted by C G Wrangel Navigare necesse est vivere non est necesse

It is not the rudder itself that bothers me, but the one who controls it.


/Totmes LeGaard.

[Hobart]

Originally Posted by dsaur2 For the amount of work you put in this post... and you are still so very wrong. A rudderless ship will be unsteerable.

I was always of the thought that the keel would keep the ship going straight unless other forces were applied ie wind on sail angle, anchor over the side, hitting a whale.

I havent done years of study on the physics of sailing boats, nor am I going to dredge up examples to prove me right or wrong at 3am (the time it is for me now) but surely there must be more then one way to turn this kind of ship and it would make sense that in battle multiple techniques would be used to get the desired result faster then the opponent.

[Capitane Jean]

Originally Posted by Hobart I was always of the thought that the keel would keep the ship going straight unless other forces were applied ie wind on sail angle, anchor over the side, hitting a whale. I havent done years of study on the physics of sailing boats, nor am I going to dredge up examples to prove me right or wrong at 3am (the time it is for me now) but surely there must be more then one way to turn this kind of ship and it would make sense that in battle multiple techniques would be used to get the desired result faster then the opponent.

Basically yes. However the forces generated from the sails are so large, that there's some work involved to simply go straight in the first place. The keel on these ships is not proportionally as large as on a sailing yacht, for example.

[Capitane Jean]

Originally Posted by dsaur2 For the amount of work you put in this post... and you are still so very wrong. A rudderless ship will be unsteerable.

I've already accumulated a warning from the forum mods for answering these posts of yours. The ability to angle a piece of wood on the rear of a ship by about 10 degrees (after the steering wheel was invented) is not the most efficient way to steer a ship in battle. The small angle is due to the rudder being manoeuvred by a tiller, pre ca. 1700 attached via a whipstaff that allowed for a few degrees or rudder angle to each side (so that the helmsman could be elevated enough to see the sails of the ship) and later by a steering wheel that allowed a larger angle (but still severly limited due to the tiller being longer than the ship's beam). Now, I want to know why you insist on telling me wrong. You repeat the same phrase like a broken record.