Dear veterans of POTBS:

[Toxic Trance]

Most of this is TL;DR for me, so I just read the first post.


I don't consider myself a veteran player, mainly because I pretty much quit playing this game before the bucc even existed, and only returned for 1-2 month stints once it was made f2p.


Either way, I continue to check the site and these forums to see if I should return, because I LOVED this game. It was amazing. It was difficult, strategic, and rewarding. Unfortunately, that hasn't really been the case in a long time now (from my point of view).

I'll be the first to admit I'm not FLS's target PvPer since I actually enjoyed Avcom (BALANCE-based AvCom, not GUARD-based AvCom), and they seem to continually **** on AvCom with every change they make.

These changes are not coming because Veteran players are acting one way or another. These changes are coming because FLS is desperately trying to figure out what they've done wrong and then fix it. The completely reactive state of the Devs as opposed to a proactive state is what has reduced this game to flailing around miserably trying to survive.

This was no more apparent than when I met FLS staff in New Orleans at pyratecon 2009, When I realized that very very few of the staff actually played the game (I think two of them had ever PvP'd outside of testbed, if I remember correctly). They were unaware of basic exploits, and seemed more than thrilled to tell me that the best thing to ever happen to potbs was on its way: Skirmishes! Where kiddies can fight each other without losing anything! Huzzah! Because people were complaining that they lost things, and the introduction of ship insurance wasn't enough to shut them up.

Don't blame veteran players for wanting to win, or maximize their returns. Because it's not just Vets, and it's completely human nature. This whole thing is ridiculous.

Elessaria hit the nail on the head, as usual.

[Josh_Brown]

Originally Posted by Toxic Trance I'll be the first to admit I'm not FLS's target PvPer since I actually enjoyed Avcom (BALANCE-based AvCom, not GUARD-based AvCom), and they seem to continually **** on AvCom with every change they make.

I don't know anyone who has played both systems that didn't prefer the Balance-based AvCom to the new system; and honsetly, if FLS wanted to make a system "more realistic" AvCom is the way to go, as the fundamental premise of the balance system was to represent the real ebb-and-flow of taking advantages in time, positioning of the body and of the blade, in order to break through an opponent's defenses. Magic combos have no place in a real swordfight.

[GeezerZ2]

Originally Posted by OranjeBeered FLS isn't killing the game, WE are. Nearly all the changes that have been made to the game, or are upcoming, are results of the actions of the most enthusiastic players: 1st/2nd rates were removed because people figured out how to build lots, or duplicating them, making them far too prevalent. It wasn't the noobs that had 100 duras, it was the vets. The Group Strength mechanics were created to fix ganking and seal clubbing, both actions of experienced players. Area chat wasn't removed because new people were using it to find help, it was removed because people used it for epic bad behaviour that normally wouldn't be tolerated in a public place. The skills system is being revamped because it was too complex for new players to figure out, and even moderately experienced players were still totally outclassed by the elite group of PvPers. In this case, playing for hours every day shouldn't be considered a bad thing, but the fact that it took that much work to be able to understand the system says something about it. The "handling characteristics" of the Xebecs is one of the first things being addressed in the changing of the ships. This isn't because the person who just started playing the game figured out how to get his Arcadia to do 30 knots at every point of sail and uses it to rageboard or run away, it's because the experienced players do this. The upcoming eco changes aren't because people new to the game figured out how to have 10 F2P accounts upgraded by buying BSNs with doubloons, not real money, they're because the vets did this. A lot of the most experienced players are the most vocal critics of these changes, but at least for my part I'm willing to admit that these changes are in part because of me. Not every veteran of POTBS did any or all of these things, but enough did to make it OUR fault. I look forward to these changes increasing the retention rate of new players, and thereby improving the number and quality of options for gameplay available for everyone.

I agree with all of this. And to add to your list, I dont know how to put this in words, the only way I know is to fix the disloyalty of so many players and make it so you would pick a nation and stick to it. I sound like a noob but it is silly to have map after map start and everyone wonders what nation is gunna get zergged. I personaly enjoy fighting for the same nation every map and showing some pride and honor for that nation but a LOT of vetrans have more fun creating decention and disrupting everything everyone else works hard for. I hope if anything comes from the 2.11 it will be to eleminate that by whatever means it can. I can live with just about any game machanics good or bad but the zerg is killing the game IMO.

[brasa218]

why was my post removed?!

[Grutte Pier]

Originally Posted by Toxic Trance Most of this is TL;DR for me, so I just read the first post. I don't consider myself a veteran player, mainly because I pretty much quit playing this game before the bucc even existed, and only returned for 1-2 month stints once it was made f2p. Either way, I continue to check the site and these forums to see if I should return, because I LOVED this game. It was amazing. It was difficult, strategic, and rewarding. Unfortunately, that hasn't really been the case in a long time now (from my point of view). I'll be the first to admit I'm not FLS's target PvPer since I actually enjoyed Avcom (BALANCE-based AvCom, not GUARD-based AvCom), and they seem to continually **** on AvCom with every change they make. These changes are not coming because Veteran players are acting one way or another. These changes are coming because FLS is desperately trying to figure out what they've done wrong and then fix it. The completely reactive state of the Devs as opposed to a proactive state is what has reduced this game to flailing around miserably trying to survive. This was no more apparent than when I met FLS staff in New Orleans at pyratecon 2009, When I realized that very very few of the staff actually played the game (I think two of them had ever PvP'd outside of testbed, if I remember correctly). They were unaware of basic exploits, and seemed more than thrilled to tell me that the best thing to ever happen to potbs was on its way: Skirmishes! Where kiddies can fight each other without losing anything! Huzzah! Because people were complaining that they lost things, and the introduction of ship insurance wasn't enough to shut them up. Don't blame veteran players for wanting to win, or maximize their returns. Because it's not just Vets, and it's completely human nature. This whole thing is ridiculous. Elessaria hit the nail on the head, as usual.

TLR
2345677890

[Josh_Brown]

Originally Posted by Grutte Pier TLR 2345677890

Useless post is useless.

[Grutte Pier]

Originally Posted by Josh_Brown Useless post is useless.

first he post that everything is tl:dr and that he only read OP and then he post a wall of text,
my post was to make a point, it was not useless
troll!

[Vosper]

Actually it is FLS's fault, they made the changes to the game that allowed everything you mentioned, Legalizing Crossteaming, Removing Diplo, Group strength mechanics, Removal of First/Second Rates, Bugs that allowed Duping, not enforcing rules, Flip Flopping on rules. But They can do whatever they want with their game, dosent affect me what-so-ever.

[SytzeSjoerd]

Anyway, have fun with this new pve MMORPG iam already downloading EVE online inferno :P[/quote]

[Capitane Jean]

Originally Posted by OranjeBeered FLS isn't killing the game, WE are. Nearly all the changes that have been made to the game, or are upcoming, are results of the actions of the most enthusiastic players: 1st/2nd rates were removed because people figured out how to build lots, or duplicating them, making them far too prevalent. It wasn't the noobs that had 100 duras, it was the vets.

Fair enough. they're coming back though...

Originally Posted by OranjeBeered The Group Strength mechanics were created to fix ganking and seal clubbing, both actions of experienced players.

Not sure if I'd call the full-time gankers "experienced" - to be honest, I fount this a very good change that should have been in there from the start - that it borks the OS tagging is just a technical problem that should be resolved. Ganking and clubbing has been causing many ragequits when people reach level 35 and head for san Marcos.

Originally Posted by OranjeBeered Area chat wasn't removed because new people were using it to find help, it was removed because people used it for epic bad behaviour that normally wouldn't be tolerated in a public place.

I'm not sure why moderating area chat is different than moderating any other chat. Just FLS being lazy or doing budget cuts, IMO.

Originally Posted by OranjeBeered The skills system is being revamped because it was too complex for new players to figure out, and even moderately experienced players were still totally outclassed by the elite group of PvPers. In this case, playing for hours every day shouldn't be considered a bad thing, but the fact that it took that much work to be able to understand the system says something about it.

Much work perhaps, but not requiring an awful lot of time. Not sure if I think the game is much harder than any other multiplayer game, to be honest.

Originally Posted by OranjeBeered The "handling characteristics" of the Xebecs is one of the first things being addressed in the changing of the ships. This isn't because the person who just started playing the game figured out how to get his Arcadia to do 30 knots at every point of sail and uses it to rageboard or run away, it's because the experienced players do this.

And how is this killing the game? This is a long sought chance. We are not killing the game by having FLS make the chebex sensible. That the xebec is borked is a mistake from FLS side.

Originally Posted by OranjeBeered The upcoming eco changes aren't because people new to the game figured out how to have 10 F2P accounts upgraded by buying BSNs with doubloons, not real money, they're because the vets did this.

New people figured out this pretty easily too, I'm afraid. They just diddn't have the dubloons. Are they even changing the econ with the purpose of countering multi-accounting?

Originally Posted by OranjeBeered A lot of the most experienced players are the most vocal critics of these changes, but at least for my part I'm willing to admit that these changes are in part because of me. Not every veteran of POTBS did any or all of these things, but enough did to make it OUR fault. I look forward to these changes increasing the retention rate of new players, and thereby improving the number and quality of options for gameplay available for everyone.

I do not mean to sound overly harsh, nor do I really disagree with you, even if it looks that way. In a summary, I think that those complaining about anti-gank mechanics and Xebec handling are just peeved because they will have to fight with a risk of loosing, and should just grow a pair. I'm not sure what the econ chances are, so I won't comment on that. The Skillset is IMO just like any other MMO, and thus it is not the reason people leave the game. That it's hard to beat experienced players is inevitable and will still be the case, no matter the skills - we're just better than others at the game (and others are just better than us) , and no skill revamp will chance that. The rates will probably make a good grind project, similar to black-jack machines that people will spend money and time in the game to maybe, one day, get a ship that they cannot afford to loose (in a loss-based PvP game).