Isildur doesn't have a grasp on the db economy.

[Captain Stubing]

I truely cannot believe I'm saying this, but there has got to be the risk that you could lose a lot by, well, losing.

Sure, in the beginning it would be great if when you lost a lvl 50 ship you only needed a few hours of grinding to purchase another one. I, for one, would be out PvPing my brains out, and I suck at PvP (for all those who may see me trying to sneak through a red zone.) However, that same benefit will eventually become a real point of apathy. Sure, I got sunk again, and I could take a couple of hours to grind out more cash for another ship, but why bother? It's always the same old grind. Find NPC, mash the space bar until he's finished. Find another NPC, mash space bar. Lather, rince, repeat...

The only other efficient way of getting back the capital you lost is to farm the more popular db missions out there. You know which ones I mean...

I will whole-heartedly agree that the current grind takes too long. It should not take 1-2 weeks to grind back another ship. I would say 4-5 days, max, for the casual gamer to get back on his feet. The bigger issue, in my mind, is the need for new and different ways of grinding. New types of missions, like, say, delivery missions where you were given "cargo" that you had to take to, say, Charlestown. I know that this specific idea is really lame, but you get the point. The same old thing gets really boring really fast. During beta the suggestion of player bounties was looked upon as being too contentious a point, with the idea that players wold be setting bounties on other players just to aggravate. What about NPC bounties? You don't list them yourself, but you can see the list of available targets to track down.

I'm getting away from my original point, and I'm sorry for that. The bottom line is that you absolutly MUST have the risk of some loss, otherwise the reward just doesn't mean as much.

[Vixentrox]

Don't pvp with something you either can't afford to loose or don't mind grinding or working the economy for. If you cant afford to loose a 100K+/per durability ship than use a ship that costs 10-20K per durability. There are plenty of examples of people using weaker ships to win against superior vessels. Ships are consumables and should be thought of as such. Pricey ones, but consumable none the less.

[Undrsiege]

Originally Posted by Vixentrox

Don't pvp with something you either can't afford to loose or don't mind grinding or working the economy for. If you cant afford to loose a 100K+/per durability ship than use a ship that costs 10-20K per durability. There are plenty of examples of people using weaker ships to win against superior vessels. Ships are consumables and should be thought of as such. Pricey ones, but consumable none the less.

The whole idea is if you have a set number of players who aquire the best and don't lose them but blow everything else up people loose interest and give up.

[Baron432]

Originally Posted by Vixentrox

Don't pvp with something you either can't afford to loose or don't mind grinding or working the economy for. If you cant afford to loose a 100K+/per durability ship than use a ship that costs 10-20K per durability. There are plenty of examples of people using weaker ships to win against superior vessels. Ships are consumables and should be thought of as such. Pricey ones, but consumable none the less.

The problem is:
- this does not work for most ppl. Majority of players want to use equipment *they deserve* (leveled for, etc.), and to use it regularily (at least on week base). The game becomes even more boring if they are enforced in not doing so.
- if nations are un-balanced and especially now, when population shrinked, it is frequent view to see one side joining PBs in significantly higher numbers, with higher quality ships (aka with high probability to win), with the other side being unable to do so and unable to even replace their bundle ships. The game becomes one-sided and boring.
Ships are only *consumables* if:
- you still enjoy playing them and
- you (or your guild/nation) are able and willing to replace them in some joyful way

Otherwise it remains one of major causes making ppl to leave PotBS and not return here again ...

[Vixentrox]

Originally Posted by Baron432

The problem is:
- this does not work for most ppl. Majority of players want to use equipment *they deserve* (leveled for, etc.), and to use it regularily (at least on week base). The game becomes even more boring if they are enforced in not doing so.
- if nations are un-balanced and especially now, when population shrinked, it is frequent view to see one side joining PBs in significantly higher numbers, with higher quality ships (aka with high probability to win), with the other side being unable to do so and unable to even replace their bundle ships. The game becomes one-sided and boring.
Ships are only *consumables* if:
- you still enjoy playing them and
- you (or your guild/nation) are able and willing to replace them in some joyful way

Otherwise it remains one of major causes making ppl to leave PotBS and not return here again ...

They may feel they deserve said ships but other people deserve to sink said ship if they are better.

Nations are unbalanced...but the side with the smaller numbers doesn't always loose and in fact they have been doing quite well in many cases or even winning.

Ships are consumable any way you look at or they would have unlimited durability (fall back anyone?). Your sword is not a consumable. Your pistol is not a consumable. Your general outfittings are not consumables. It isn't that hard to understand. If it can be permenantly destroyed or used up then it absolutly is a consumable. People that don't understand this are in the wrong type of game. Seriously, they need to play a game where there is no consequences for loosing becuase they get too attached to an item that absolutly is a consumable.

[Raymondo Montalban]

consumable ships? - Maybe true.

But ...

after 11 years of online-mmoprgs, veteran of Meridian 59, Everquest (1), expirience in Eve-online, Expert about WoW (pre addon), Lotro and Horizons:

I n e v e r had consumables (for use two times) that need to grind up about several month ...

So nobody can sell me the idea about the consunmable ship. Not your fault guys, but maybe the fault of FLS. And that bring us back to Kazamx and his frist post in this thread. *wave at Kazamx * fully agree with you.

Beside the discuss about consumables it is a fact the warrior wants the best sword, the rogues the best dagger, the sorcerer the best staff (and the dwarf the best axe...) So don't come up with the idea of a consumable for 13.5 Mio dublons/2.

I can all times afford a cutter. But ... what about the complains about cutter-wars in this forums?

Give a definition for "fun" by yourself. Yes there are heavy frigates and ships of the line. But you can afford only the los of cutters and posties. So go pvp with postis and cutters, go to PB with postis and cutters, this are the ships you can afford because you have no time to grind up the better ones?

Is this, what people mean by talking about affordable ships and consumables for 13.5 Mio dublons/2.

As I said above, this dont sell to me (and I think not much others).

[Vixentrox]

Then you have been conditioned to your way of thinking by these other games that grinding for something valuable means it is your forever. Too bad. That isn't how this game is and that is a VERY good thing IMO. And you know what? You don't NEED to have these very expensive ships to be useful or successful. Again, it's the games in the past that have infected this absurd entitlement mindset on people that grinding for loot means it is thiers forever.

If you can't afford to loose the ship, use a cheaper one and that doesn't have to be a cutter. Anyone should be able to afford a decent enough ship like a sleek conquistador, Triton, or what have you without much grinding. These are reasonably priced and reasonably effective.

[Baron432]

Originally Posted by Vixentrox

Then you have been conditioned to your way of thinking by these other games that grinding for something valuable means it is your forever. Too bad. That isn't how this game is and that is a VERY good thing IMO. And you know what? You don't NEED to have these very expensive ships to be useful or successful. Again, it's the games in the past that have infected this absurd entitlement mindset on people that grinding for loot means it is thiers forever.

If you can't afford to loose the ship, use a cheaper one and that doesn't have to be a cutter. Anyone should be able to afford a decent enough ship like a sleek conquistador, Triton, or what have you without much grinding. These are reasonably priced and reasonably effective.

1) the other games based on *no hard grind for consumables* work, are successful (at least for some enough time), while PotBS is starwing A LOT
2) you have the right for your opinion how the game should work, but you - as the shrinking playerbase shows clearly - are minority on the gaming market. Clear fact. If FLS needs more customers to come and stay, they are to make/keep their game working in a bit different way.

[ummax]

Originally Posted by Vixentrox

Then you have been conditioned to your way of thinking by these other games that grinding for something valuable means it is your forever. Too bad. That isn't how this game is and that is a VERY good thing IMO. And you know what? You don't NEED to have these very expensive ships to be useful or successful. Again, it's the games in the past that have infected this absurd entitlement mindset on people that grinding for loot means it is thiers forever.

If you can't afford to loose the ship, use a cheaper one and that doesn't have to be a cutter. Anyone should be able to afford a decent enough ship like a sleek conquistador, Triton, or what have you without much grinding. These are reasonably priced and reasonably effective.

Games are for having fun and not supposed to be a job. If people are finding that its unfun and turning into drugery which clearly it is then its not fun and they leave. It seems to me a great many people have left and still more leave every day as other MMORPG"s are released. The idea here is to compete and in order to compete the drudgery needs to be removed or the people leave. If the intent is to have people leave then they are doing the right thing. If the intent is to keep a steady playerbase and healthy population that will ignore new releases and keep playing this game then it looks like they are not doing the right thing and need to fix it. Its simple really and has unfortunately EVERYTHING to do with player mindset and clearly the player mindset is saying "this game is not fun please make it fun" as they are in fact leaving.

[flaknugget]

Originally Posted by ummax

Games are for having fun and not supposed to be a job. If people are finding that its unfun and turning into drugery which clearly it is then its not fun and they leave.

The saddest part I see, is plenty of people have left without ever having won a PvP match, many have probably never even tried one.

How many DBs do you think it would take for a fresh new player to enter PotBS, and become skilled enough to take-on any of the established player base?

Nevermind the level grind to 50, just think about how many PvP losses they'll have to pay-off before they even know what they are doing, before they ever earn themselves an MoV.


I find it remarkable, that today, in a game with an already condensed player base, I personally see fewer than 10% participate in PvP on a regular basis. I just pray this game isn't working as intended.