Isildur doesn't have a grasp on the db economy.

[Jarvel]

Originally Posted by Jean Gris

See, you just pulled the same crap straw man argument. No one is asking for free doubloons or free ships or no pvp losses. Increasing doubloon drops is not asking for free handouts.
.

Oh.. What is it you are doing more of when the db's drop that earns you more db's? I don't see suggestions saying, make it more difficult to farm the ships so we earn the higher db drops..

I didn't say NO doubloon drops.. That's a rediculous LIE.. If you quote me, have the freaking ability to quote accurately or your credibility really is as useless to everyone else as it already is to me.. You are asking for MORE... I am saying leave it at the high levels it is at already. You don't need MORE.. that's not saying you deserve NO db's.. Sheesh, You must be beltpouches new alt name..

We don't have enough DB sinks as it is and DB's are far too cheap and easy to come by already.. I don't know anyone involved with me in the economy that has less that 100K in the bank.. That's the LOWEST.. 10 mill is one I've seen, others 'say' they are in the mill's but I haven't seen them myself.. They don't make up things about what I say, so I usually tend to believe them..

spin doctor, medical emergency in the Ask an FLS developer forum. Raising the db's without raising the risk or the effort put out IS asking for a free handout..

[denmj]

This solves the problems of casual versus hard core and mission farming and what have you.

http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30358

[Seabiscuit]

Im going to have to disagree with the OP, Isildur isnt to blame for the current problems. The primary culprit is in fact those exploited repeatable missions, because of them everyone and their brother feels the need to "grind" to be able to afford ships that were supposed to be rare. Nobody can be satisfied sailing the affordable ships anymore, thus it has turned the entire game into a huge arms race.

1st and 2nd rates rare? Haha, on my server there are entire FLEETS of the things. And then those very same people cruise around the OS in full groups of Heavy Herc's. They didnt make that kind of money from selling iron ingots.

So the blame can be placed squarely on those missions as they allowed people to rake in far more money than the game was designed to allow. The game is broken when people are refused group invites when sailing a base Herc because it's not a good enough ship.

[Jarvel]

Originally Posted by Iron Duke

1. Grinding missions for doubloons is boring - can we all agree running the same missions over and over is boring?

I agree. That's why I try to discourage people from doing it and point out better ways for them to get the db's. Ways they can do it, and not even be logged in.

2. Ship-vs-ship/PvP is exciting and is the best feature that attracted players to the game from a 'mechanics' point of view, but the risk/reward is off.

I think the pirate genre attracted more people than the pvp did. Even now I beleive there are more players interested in the PvE than the PvP, so I doubt it was the biggest draw.. Perhaps of forum junkies it's the biggest though. PvP'rs love their forums..

3. Money is to be made in the AH, but demand is low because grinding is done in low-risk PvE missions. More demand from PvP losses equals more AH profits for players that play the 'econ' game.

Demand is low because people price stupidly. Demand is low because societies are given all they need to work outside of the AH's and bypass the econ completely. Demand is low because most of the people who would craft, don't want to be a pvp'rs next gank, so they left.. More doubloons from PvP only increases the AH demand if you are in a society or in a style of play that buys from the AH to begin with and hasn't equipped themselves from within already..

Most large societies have outlets for keeping their crews outfitted and supplied. That's why so many need to grind.. They don't circulate the nation's cash flow, they horde it.. The collection of wealth outside the market damages it, it doesn't help it. If more people/socieities used the AH's and circulated the majority of their wealth with others it would blossom..

We've proven it over and over, and recently there was a post by a guild that was doing it now. It's amazing how the AH works, but it is counter to how most games are and people are very uneducated in their understanding of the market.. Such as your explanations of demand here.. you said demand is low because of low-risk grinding. DB's aren't bought on the AH.. Grinding them does little to impact demand for products on the AH.. Now, indirectly it does impact the guilds who now, via grinding, have a cash influx they can sink into more product for ships, but once spent requires they go out and grind all over again. Strange how it all works, counter to what logic is.. Once you get past that and really see the power of the market, not the individual or society, it is freakin' awesome.

I don't expect you to believe.. Truly I don't.. You can't say you were never told though.. So while your design for the economy, grind, spend, grind, spend, works for you, it is far from efficient and even farther from the best way to do that in THIS game..

Good luck..

Disagreement leads to variety.. My variety has given me all the ships I've ever needed for multiple toons, product whenever I needed it, outfitting and consumables as well..

Your system works well for you.. Grinding and crafting and doing what you do to get your ships..

However, I'm not the one complaining that my system doesn't work.. You guys that grind are complaining that it doesn't work.. I'll let you decide what that means in regards to which one of us understands how it works better..

[flaknugget]

Originally Posted by Seabiscuit

Im going to have to disagree with the OP, Isildur isnt to blame for the current problems. The primary culprit is in fact those exploited repeatable missions, because of them everyone and their brother feels the need to "grind" to be able to afford ships that were supposed to be rare. Nobody can be satisfied sailing the affordable ships anymore, thus it has turned the entire game into a huge arms race.

It definitely creates two very different player economies.

Some people say they can earn a max of 20-30k an hour... and then some say they earn 100k an hour.

I've got no problem with large, resourceful, active alliances in PotBS. But if that is what they are doing with their time, it has effectively killed the game for everyone else.

[Captain Lackey]

Originally Posted by empster2000

hmm didnt know3 that computer gaming has been around for 40 years .thats a new one for me.

Wouldn't necessarily call it "computer", but electronic gaming is easily 50+ years old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_video_game

Oh, hey, Pong is 36 years old.

[trongey]

Originally Posted by empster2000

hmm didnt know3 that computer gaming has been around for 40 years

Uh, good point. 2008 - 198x != 40. Math: F-. Will you go for ~20 years?

...it doesnt matter whether the game was meant to be played in a certain way or that players came over expecting something like the other games they played and didnt. any game that comes out with the title of mmo then it is the game and not the player that must conform or risk death of the game .just a fact.doesnt mean it is right but it is a fact and no amount of trolling will change that.u can always say hey if u dont like it leave i am happy with the game then hey grats to ya and yes they will leave.in fact most have already gone and no matter what the game was supposed to be like with the lack of players u will now never know completely since u wont have the player numbers u need to have played the game in its original way

Yup. That's the problem. When you build one thing, and people come in expecting something else, you get unhappy people. FLS didn't do a good enough job of conveying what it is they were selling, and it didn't help that they added stuff that makes PotBS look like the other MMOs.

[Jean Gris]

Originally Posted by Jarvel

Oh.. What is it you are doing more of when the db's drop that earns you more db's? I don't see suggestions saying, make it more difficult to farm the ships so we earn the higher db drops..

I didn't say NO doubloon drops.. That's a rediculous LIE.. If you quote me, have the freaking ability to quote accurately or your credibility really is as useless to everyone else as it already is to me.. You are asking for MORE... I am saying leave it at the high levels it is at already. You don't need MORE.. that's not saying you deserve NO db's.. Sheesh, You must be beltpouches new alt name..

We don't have enough DB sinks as it is and DB's are far too cheap and easy to come by already.. I don't know anyone involved with me in the economy that has less that 100K in the bank.. That's the LOWEST.. 10 mill is one I've seen, others 'say' they are in the mill's but I haven't seen them myself.. They don't make up things about what I say, so I usually tend to believe them..

spin doctor, medical emergency in the Ask an FLS developer forum. Raising the db's without raising the risk or the effort put out IS asking for a free handout..

Oh my, my someone has the vapors!

So I guess it really isn't fun when someone twists your words? I made it abundantly clear what I was doing was a parody of what you had just done to me.

Perhaps you can take your own advice to heart: "If you quote me, have the freaking ability to quote accurately or your credibility really is as useless to everyone else as it already is to me".

That would be a fine idea, please find my post where I said players should get free ships and free doubloon handouts. I'll wait.

Anywho, what you are saying then is that the current db drop rate is perfectly in sync with the difficulty of killing the npc's to get it? I disagree, I would say there is almost no difficulty in killing npc's on the OS. There is only time spent doing it. You are looking at the wrong ratio. The difficulty/reward ratio of the grind is insanely tilted toward reward. However, the time/reward ratio is even more tilted toward time. That is the problem.

Hooray, you're a bajillionaire econ trader who made 100k while posting here. I and 90% of the player base are not (as evidenced by the other 89.99% not being here anymore to post). I have 2 accounts running and all of my lots go to my society's ship production, I guess I should just say ****'em and start demanding a 50% markup.

Why argue against it? How would it affect your gameplay? That's the one question I would like you to answer. How .. would .. it ... affect .. you?

[Jarvel]

Originally Posted by Jean Gris

Why argue against it? How would it affect your gameplay? That's the one question I would like you to answer. How .. would .. it ... affect .. you?

You asked three.. Well, you asked two, but one of them you asked twice. Which was the "one"? Ah heck, I'll answer all three. Anything for you beltpouch..

1) Because it's a bad idea for the reasons already listed.
2) I'm playing the game well, I'm not having a problem getting DB's. So it affects me by being a useless system that would reward us for pvp that we are already overly rewarded for. The problem isn't that the winner is getting too little, the problem is the loser is losing too much.
3) I'm playing the game well, I'm not having a problem getting DB's. So it affects me by being a useless system that would reward us for pvp that we are already overly rewarded for. The problem isn't that the winner is getting too little, the problem is the loser is losing too much.

[Raymondo Montalban]

Ahh ...

people didn't left, because they can't afford pvp?

They left because the boring ship vs ship combat ... or what?

roflmao

And in the end ... there will be around 100 subscribers happy with all.