St Johns

[Zapor]

Originally Posted by Rose Temple Yeah at least once the PB actually started it all worked out, at least we fought. I'm talking about everything that happened leading up to it. Those who were there know what I mean.

Rose, I'm so looking forward to having you in PBs and maybe even leading them! When can we get you in a PB?

[jdf]

Recap:

France: 24 (1 1st rate and 23 skirmishers)
Brits: 24 (nearly all lvl 50 ships to include 4ths and HHs)

Losses: Brits 24, French 0

Brits took it to the open sea and tried to made a moving fight out of it...good call.

France split into two grps and whittled them down to 0.

See:

http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37094

[PirateRobert]

Originally Posted by Rose Temple I want to thank all the British Captains who accepted invites to the St Johns battle and decided not to fight, but grief, taking away my chances of enjoying the game and getting experience in Port Battles. I understand you don't want to loose ships, I accept that, I don't agree with that but I accept it. But if you don't want to risk loosing ships, then please don't accept a position just to run, taking away a chance for those of us who want to actually learn how to run a real PB. At the very least we can be using this as a training excersise for future PBs, and we won't be able to win a PB by constantly going on the defensive. That aside, I could have learned something, but people decided to take my positions up in order to not loose a ship.

Odd post about a battle where 24 brits fought and died.

What have you been smoking?

[PirateRobert]

Originally Posted by Rose Temple Yeah at least once the PB actually started it all worked out, at least we fought. I'm talking about everything that happened leading up to it. Those who were there know what I mean.

While everybody else has no idea what you are talking about, and instead see a highly misleading, totally innaccurate OP.

[Rose Temple]

Originally Posted by PirateRobert While everybody else has no idea what you are talking about, and instead see a highly misleading, totally innaccurate OP.

My apologies for the non-Brits (and Brits who weren't anywhere involved) who read my original post and went... what the heck.

The fact that at the time of my posting the original message the posting was true, but by the highly successful efforts of a few well meaning British managed to turn my original post into complete hogwash is a testiment to their endevours.

However at the time of the posting, it was accurate, as substantiated by Kal's post, which if you read into, states that yes my OP was accurate until very late in the planning process.

Still I hold by my premise, which is accurate. If you don't want to risk loosing a ship, please don't take an invite to a PB that someone who wants to be there, learn, and is willing to risk his or her ship for the good of Britain can take. Even if you leave, the time you took up in planning while all this was working out, and having to get the new people up to speed could have been better employed.

[Strato68]

Originally Posted by Phaze Is there a solution? Probably not. We must all just accept that the Brits are (largely) a useless and pathetic trash nation. The few exceptions should probably xfer to one of the 3 legit competitors for a better gaming experience.

All that typing just to insult the Brits for the hundredth time. Yea yea, we know you hate the Brits. "Blah blah blah...look at me, I hate the Brits...."

We get it. We got it 2 months ago when you said the same thing. We got it 6 months ago when you made it absolutely clear where you stood.

Redundant Redundant Redundant Redundant

Try helping instead of insulting players "for a better gaming expereince."

[Carty2]

Seems I've become something of a lightening rod since my past post, so I'll try again since you couldn't get a rational word in in nations vent post battle.

There are three basic strategies in PB's. Might be more, but there are at least 3.

1) Don't Play. This includes totally shunning the fight, showing up in griefboats for some kicks, running to the fort in the hopes of a miracle transfer to the town and avcom somehow, etc. It is designed to frustrate the opponent. Maybe they will go away and find something more fun, maybe they will roll the map, but its a mind game strategy.

2) Traditional Battle Line: 3 heavy groups of SOL equivelents and 1 of privateer bundle boats to protect the ends. Tactics incude static battle lines, the "wagon wheel", 2 line maneuvers, etc. Its about putting shot into their sides faster and harder than they can and force preservation (giving folks time and protection to heal, etc).

3) Battle of Maneuver: This is a frigate fight based entirely on speed (the old rule of thumb was nothing under 20.5 knots raw but with all the greens that may need to climb a little). You move to create separations in the enemy and using your superior speed, you take on their light group away from the main battle line, you engage the ends of the line and withdraw and repeat, you board targets of opportunity (the difference between a Herc/Capri/Conq and a HH/PH in boarding is only a single wave), etc. The goal is to lose non-bundle boats while taking down some of theirs. It is highly unlikley you outright win the map, but it is possible. We've seen the rats pull off the surprise win in the past when they were outgunned using this approach.

SJ was NOT PROOF that the advocates of denial were right. SJ wasn't a true battle of Maneuver. First, and this is not a criticism of the individual captians, Alex's came. Balcom started with a Maneuver strategy, zip up the outside of the island and engage the northern end of their line. Only there was no zip. Not wanting to leave the Alex's to certain death, the group moved at battle sails and was taken from behind. Fast boats then died to save the Alex's by breaking formation/shrouds/blocking and the original strategy was out the window. The one critisicm I will voice and I've already shared it with Balcom was that once we committed to fighting the southern group, we needed to really commit. Bal did all the right moves for a line fight -- keeping us together, creating spaces for damaged boats to heal, etc. -- but we weren't in a line fight. To the good, a couple of captians were on a great line to take the southern Frenchies in a charge that would have avoided their broadsides (wind set up for us to take their rear), he ordered us to stay, and guys followed orders. I wish he had ordered otherwise, but I was damned surprsied and glad folks listened.

NoMad's post-fight in-vent rant that we broke with the "national strategy" and to no end, was wrong in principle, but sadly right in part. The loss of 24 non-bundle boats is economically trivial and his going on about feeding MOV/T's is silly (a fifth of a bundle and writs for 2 Mercy's doesn't mean a hill of beans compared to daily production in this game). Unfortunately, it turned out that some folks did bring their bundle hercs, and their loss is to be mourned and regretted.

If we are doing a line fight, we need to roll heavy and adopt appropriate strategies. If we are doing a denial, we need to roll tiny and again match tactics to boats to mission. If we are doing a Maneuver fight we need to roll fast and most critically adopt OS PvP tactics appropriate to the ships and mission. Fighting about what we're doing even after the invites are out and showing up as a mixed bag of stuff won't work. SJ surely proved that.

[Balcom]

Excellent post Carty - well said.

[Schuft]

Can someone tell me WHAt the national Strategy is and who set it?

[gussie]

Originally Posted by Schuft Can someone tell me WHAt the national Strategy is and who set it?

In honor of UndrSiege's departure, I will answer for him:

It is fail.