A Good Model that is working!

[Blackavar]

Our Society tried the closed method: everybody turn in to the leaders, or sell to each other. It became too cumbersome to keep track. So we switched to a model that is really working well for us. We picked a port with good harbors, kind of in the center of our area, and made it's AH the "guild" AH. Everything we get we sell on "our" AH at reasonable markup.

Shipbuilders don't have to keep track of who donated what, or who sells what at what price. Everything we make is sold at the same AH at the same markup. We don't have to worry about whether the person who needs X is online when the X supplier is online.

Before we did this, that AH was almost empty; now, it is full of stuff all the time, and other people are coming in to buy, not just Society members. Everybody is making a profit! I think this is what the devs were hoping would happen!

[Spinnaker Sam]

You are right, that is how the dev's designed the game to work. Good job in realizing that the system works better when societies don't isolate themselves. Of course, this doesn't work for the communist societies that have their members giving the goods to the shipbuilders instead of selling it to them.

[Blackavar]

Originally Posted by Spinnaker Sam You are right, that is how the dev's designed the game to work. Good job in realizing that the system works better when societies don't isolate themselves. Of course, this doesn't work for the communist societies that have their members giving the goods to the shipbuilders instead of selling it to them.

We actually started out that way, everyone just donating. And then they wanted free ships in return! So then the shipwrights started trying to keep track of who was really turning in the most, and then it became too much trouble. Now everyone sells and buys at the same markup, whether it is oak logs or ships.

[Taralin Snowden]

Originally Posted by Blackavar We actually started out that way, everyone just donating. And then they wanted free ships in return! So then the shipwrights started trying to keep track of who was really turning in the most, and then it became too much trouble. Now everyone sells and buys at the same markup, whether it is oak logs or ships.

one of the problems with everyone using the same markup is the disparity in labor value.

in this game, every player is equally skilled in every manufacturing task. your labor supply is not constrained by talent, training or experience. if you want your workers to stop being lumberjacks and instead be bakers all you have to do is tear down your lumber camps and put up provisioners instead. we all get 24 hours of labor per structure, per day, and we can use that labor for anything we like.

the disparity arises when the goods that you are producing have more value than the goods that I'm producing. we can both use the same 100% markup, but when you're selling 5000 doubloon items at a 5000 doubloon profit, and I'm selling 500 doubloon items at a 500 doubloon profit, after a while I'll start noticing that you have a lot more money than I do.

anyone who believes that it's fair for everyone to use the same markup should do a quick calculation to figure out what their weekly profit would be if they devote all 10 lots to producing hemp. hemp is critically important, used for rope and canvas, which are needed for shipbuilding and sail upgrades. but the labor cost to produce hemp is very high compared to the sale value.

-ken

[armae]

Blackaver..kudos to you and your guild....if more ppl were doing things like that this game would be a lot smoother..gj

Taralin...hey nice gj on the math...now tell me whats the diff bewtween say a markup of 15% on 0 Db..and 15% on 0 db?..ya ok i thought so...any other questions?...or is this too subtle for you?

[JackHardy]

Originally Posted by armae Blackaver..kudos to you and your guild....if more ppl were doing things like that this game would be a lot smoother..gj Taralin...hey nice gj on the math...now tell me whats the diff bewtween say a markup of 15% on 0 Db..and 15% on 0 db?..ya ok i thought so...any other questions?...or is this too subtle for you?

Yeah I have a question, wtf are you talking about? Taralin made a good point about the markup; though @Taralin, if it's working, then it's working. Things that cost less do yield a lower profit margin when you do the percent thing, but retooling your economy can be expensive, and everyone rushing to build one thing will saturate it. Maybe people selling the cheaper stuff have found their niche and are sticking to it. After all people selling the 5000 dbls stuff might not unload their goods as frequently or consistently as the people selling the 500 dbls goods.

[armae]

Originally Posted by JackHardy Yeah I have a question, wtf are you talking about? Taralin made a good point about the markup; though @Taralin, if it's working, then it's working. Things that cost less do yield a lower profit margin when you do the percent thing, but retooling your economy can be expensive, and everyone rushing to build one thing will saturate it. Maybe people selling the cheaper stuff have found their niche and are sticking to it. After all people selling the 5000 dbls stuff might not unload their goods as frequently or consistently as the people selling the 500 dbls goods.

Ok what Taralin failed to mention is that the items that cost 5000 vs the items that cost 500....prolly dont sell worth a ****.So yes..youv answered your own question tyvm..volume.
And it annoys me that hes taking jabs at these guys who are helping themselves and the community by default,over a dubious profit potential....

[MpG]

Um, Taralin made an absolutely valid point, and if there was any insult or "jab" in there, I sure missed it.

It's important to keep in mind that different things require different amounts of labour to create. 10 units of logs take 1 hour to produce, while 10 units of limestone takes 4 hours to produce. Both are cheap, high-demand items, but one person is going to be able to sell 4 times as much. If both the log-seller and the limestone-seller are happy, then fine. But the disparity between their earning potentials should at least be acknowledged.

Edit: but yes, definite kudos to the OP and those who are involved in that setup.

[armae]

Originally Posted by MpG Um, Taralin made an absolutely valid point, and if there was any insult or "jab" in there, I sure missed it. It's important to keep in mind that different things require different amounts of labour to create. 10 units of logs take 1 hour to produce, while 10 units of limestone takes 4 hours to produce. Both are cheap, high-demand items, but one person is going to be able to sell 4 times as much. If both the log-seller and the limestone-seller are happy, then fine. But the disparity between their earning potentials should at least be acknowledged. Edit: but yes, definite kudos to the OP and those who are involved in that setup.

plz reread...the last 3 words of what i said..."dubious profit potential"

When ya start with "one of the problems...."

[MpG]

Huh? Obviously I can't speak on Taralin's behalf, but if you considered his starting his post with "One of the problems..." to be offensive... Well, it didn't sound offensive to me, is all I'm saying. If that's the source of disagreement, then fair enough.

But the situation he was pointing out (dubious profit potential) is a problem. What else should he call it? In the hypothetical "equal percentage mark-up" agreement, one person is not making as much money as the other person. You're quite correct, a more expensive product might sell slower, which would certainly justify the higher profit. But I just provided an example where both products were cheap and easy to sell, and one person still made more money than the other, which returns things back to the original problem. Again, it's possible that the person making less money doesn't mind, which addresses the problem.

We don't know how/if that issue has been addressed in Blackavar's case, but since Blackavar didn't actually mention it, I don't see how Taralin can be faulted for pointing it out. Heck, I might have done so myself, had I seen the post earlier.