Changes to La Couronne graphics for historical reasons

[unity100]

http://www.burningsea.com/forums/sho...d.php?p=180416

what do you think about this ?

[melessqr]

The galleons in the game were included purposefully, with forethougth and intent.

[unity100]

Originally Posted by melessqr

The galleons in the game were included purposefully, with forethougth and intent.

they definitely should. just as carracks were still going around in 1600, galleons would still be around in 1720. BUT, not in the same state, just like carracks built in 1520 were razed, refitted so that they can service around 1600, galleons were also modified as such to be able to cope up with 1700s.

[LiMuBei]

Originally Posted by unity100

they definitely should. just as carracks were still going around in 1600, galleons would still be around in 1720. BUT, not in the same state, just like carracks built in 1520 were razed, refitted so that they can service around 1600, galleons were also modified as such to be able to cope up with 1700s.

You got any sources to back that up?

[Xaphod]

Indeed. lack of contemporary galleon sources is the reason for including non-contemporary galleons.

[unity100]

read the linked thread. its explained very well here.

la couronne is not a 'galleon' per se. it is a "Great ship" that is contemporary of sovereign of the seas (later royal sovereign) which was a first rater (with later classification). it is actually the first of the SOLs of 1660s. it wasnt a trade galleon either, it was built as the biggest frontline ship of france.

also remember, La Couronne is not a trade galleon. it was a "great ship" - equivalent of the ship of the line.

in fact, 'great ship' class ships constructed in between 1600-1650 can not even be considered galleons - if you examine them youll find that they dont differ much from the SOLs of anglo-dutch wars of 1660-1680.

check royal sovereign (1637)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sovereign_of_the_Seas

check la couronne (1636)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_...ouronne_(1636)

these 2 ships are contemporaries and rivals. they set the SOL Standard for the later years, and if you examine them you can easily notice that.

[mageofsilence]

Originally Posted by unity100

read the linked thread. its explained very well here.

la couronne is not a 'galleon' per se. it is a "Great ship" that is contemporary of sovereign of the seas (later royal sovereign) which was a first rater (with later classification). it is actually the first of the SOLs of 1660s. it wasnt a trade galleon either, it was built as the biggest frontline ship of france.



check royal sovereign (1637)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sovereign_of_the_Seas

check la couronne (1636)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_...ouronne_(1636)

these 2 ships are contemporaries and rivals. they set the SOL Standard for the later years, and if you examine them you can easily notice that.

La Couronne was a war Galleon built by the French themselves. This is what wiki says. So where did it say it wasnt a galleon?

[Matin]

Let me say something rather obvious here. If you are depending on Wikipedia as your source, then you don't know anything. I don't want to say the ratio of good information to bad information is a one to one ratio on Wikipedia, but you need to take everything you see in Wikipedia with a huge grain of salt.

In order to make this argument, someone needs to head back to some primary and authoritive secondary sources. However, even returning to secondary sources can have a downside.

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/dis...ture=1#content

In this painting, the galleon Nuestra Senora de Cavadonga looks to be twice the size of the 60 gun Centurion. However, the ships were actually close to being the same size. Oddly enough, the Centurion was actually cut down to a 50 gun ship after this action. So even depending on art works of the period does not provide sufficient evidence of what a ship might have looked like in our time period.

I think you can challenge the work of the fine shipwrights around here about their designs. However, you have to use better sources than Wikipedia.

[unity100]

First of all, there is no rule that says 'wikipedia is should not be trusted'. There is reliable information, and there is unreliable. The information contained i linked is reliable and what is repeated in multiple sources long before internet, leave aside wikipedia was present. Jumping on an internet bandwagon like "wikipedia is not cool" just makes one look more foolish, moreso if accompanied by an utterly ridiculous, childish complement like "you dont know anything".

La couronne and Sovereign are two of the most widely produced and circulated ship models, because we have great deal of reliability regarding them. not only that, but even the sizes and composure of models produced for those ships do not differ at all from producer to producer, totally in contradiction to, say, mayflower, or santa maria. those wikipedia articles just carry over that information long standing. they are neither political articles depending on whim, or deductions from a few artist illustrations either.

Additionally, if you are willing to accept the term galleon, you will have to call any ship constructed between 1500-1750 galleons, including what you so gloriously call "SOL"s. because the term refers to certain rigging, fore and aft superstructure and bow and stern arrangements - namely lower, longer and narrower from carracks and predecessor ships, square tuck sterns instead of a round, and having bow upper structure taken back from the bow and such.

therefore with this definition any ship in anglo dutch wars between 1650-1680s classify as galleons. La couronne, Sovereign, 7 provincien, Royal Prince, therefore all galleons, as well as golden hind.

But as you noticed there are sub classifications. People of that time called la couronne and sovereign "great ships", and then when the rate classification was invented, they started to call such ships as "raters" and "ships of the line". we are using the latter definition today.

[Marion vanGhent]

FLS decided, quite some time ago, that the Couronne makes a fine and extremely antiquated merchant galleon for PotBS's game setting. The vision for this ship is that it's a rich merchant's antique toy -- an old warship sold out of service, bought by an eccentric thousandaire as much as a status symbol as a working ship. The 3DSC and Flying Lab talked extensively about this and agreed unanimously that it would be terribly out of place as a bona-fide warship in 1720, but as there is a long history of warships being sold into merchant service and enjoying exceptional longevity as such, that's the role to which the still-mighty Couronne has been assigned.

You'll note a similar story behind the 44-gun Oliphant. She is bedecked and fitted as a warship-turned-Indiaman, and was deliberately made in a style a bit outdated for 1720 -- just not as much so as the Couronne.

If LiMuBei is interested in revisiting the model to take down some of the superstructure and make a variant version, FLS will consider ways to use it... and may even consider moving the Couronne a bit further to the sidelines. But we still consider her useful to the game as-is and don't feel this would be a priority.