Are Pirates ever going to be fixed??

[Jean StCroix]

There are a few things I have yet to figure out about what Pirates do, that has been nagging me a lot recently...

CLOAKING DEVICES:

1. I have made a Renard with unbuffed, 28.3 mile OS Visibility, and when I tried a stealth spec, I bottomed out at 15.0 miles OS Visibility. Regardless of what I do, cannot get it any lower, and am spotted as soon as I am within 15 miles of my target. Somehow, a Pirate can get a larger ship to be more stealthy, and can park within 3 miles of you, and still not be spotted... (and I am not talking about just next to a port... but out to sea and moving)

CRUISE MISSILE DISABLING SHOT:

2. Using simular skills like Cut Shroud, they have found ways to use them to better results, as in getting to use this skill at the full range of your cannons, where as a Privateer can only use it the range of disabling shot (i.e. 50% maximum distance of your cannons).

NUKCLEAR WEAPON DAMAGE??:

I once watched, a FT in an Mastercraft Oliphant get sunk in 3 vollies. Not 3 vollies from 3 ships, but just 3 vollies. Took 3 rats, 40 seconds to sink a fresh Oli MC. Using the ships that they were in (mostly Heavy Oliphants), I still cannot figure out how they did that much damage so fast. Even at the best that I can do as Privateer in a ship with a simular number of guns, and improved damage potential... 3 Privateers in Mignones, couldn't even do that... especially since this was against the Oli's Broadside, and was geared for PvP. I was in my Hurc at the time, and they did the same to me on their next full volly, Fresh to Sunk by 3 ships... so it wasn't some extra damage shot... this was their normal firepower.

Now, other advantages that Pirates have, that I don't like, is that no ship (until it is limited just to 4th rates) are off limits to a Pirate to capture. With the last patch allowing one to board at speeds up to 10 knots, this gives a pirate a chance to just make their way to a boat, as fast as possible, board, win, and you have any ship, regardless if you are outclassed by size, number of guns, or what... you still win!!! They have to wait only 2 hrs before they can go and capture another ship, and they can have a varitable armada waiting to set sail, whenever they lose a ship... so, while a Privateer is limited to what they can afford or is given by their society, a 'rat has the liberty of just going out, attacking, and if it is failed... set sail again in short order, no real loss.

Also, the Pirates have all the best skills that other classes have, and have no real weakness overall as a class. They also have the ultimate griefing skill that can be used on anyone, anywhere, even if they are not in the 'red zones', called "Run Them Down". This skill slows a ship down on the OS, and is also follows the player into a battle, regardless if it is PvP with another player or just PvE.

This game is going so far down the path of everything being made for the Pirate, that even though a Privateer should be able to go and defeat a Pirate in a 1v1 combat in equal ships, but I only think it is really who gets the jump on the other first.

Historically, Pirates were NEVER in large ships, and even the Queen Anne's Revenge was a small 20 gun friggate that had extra guns added to it, to bump it up to 40 guns. It wasn't anything like a Hurcules, it was more like an overgunned Postillion. Pirates were mostly in Sloops like the "Bermuda Sloop" which later became known as the "Burmuda Sloop of War" due to how many Pirates used them, and captured ships with tatics in small ships, not with captured SOL's or insanely designed "Hurcules 'Pirate' Frigats" or "Abbadon's Will" or what not. So, I find it sad that they should be able to use anything that they can capture, since historically, this is grossly inaccurate for the most part. They scuttled most "captured ships" due to they didn't want to be weighed down by the extra burden of such a large ship, and it wasn't fast enough or manouverable enough to do or go where the Pirate wanted.

Don't believe me? Go ahead, and look up information anywhere about the best pirates ever. Jack Rackham and Edward Teach (Black Beard) were almost always in a sloop or a cutter, or maybe even at the most, a small frigate.

Lastly, boarding was never attempted at speeds over 3 knots, due to the risk to the Masts and Rigging to the ships, risk of the Planks used to board over would slip and spill troops into the sea, and also the risk of either damaging the hulls and/or structure of either or both ships that could cripple them or sink them. The increase to 10 Knots is historically inaccurate, highly risky and would NEVER be done, and only really benifits the Pirates for PvP. Thank you FLS for making it way too easy for the Pirates, and when you look at the Naval Officers and Free Traders, they pretty much cannot hope to win ever again against a Pirate due to this. It is a mixed blessing and curse for a Privateer, depending on who gets the jump on who between the 'rat and the Privateer.

I do hope that in the future, FLS fixes some of these gross oversights, since what I really liked the most about this game... it was fairly close to historical accuracy as you can get on who controlled what, what ships were used back in the day and age, but using skills and ship outfittings to allow some variance in ships and avatars to show why there were some that became so well noted that they will never be forgotten by history.

[elessaria]

Is this a joke? On the offchance it isn't here's a few possibilities:

1/ Stealth has a hardcap at 15mi beyond which you can never, ever go. What you are probably seeing is the broken Ad-Hoc invisibility that lasts ~30secs after leaving an instance but which can be exploited to uber-stealth.

2/ Range mods.

3/ Desperation Fire 2 is a +40% damage shot. Sacrifice for Victory is +10%. With coarse powder and three damage generals anyone can hit 50% damage, giving those 3 Olis +100% damage every minute (skill cooldown). Broadside damage on a Heavy Oli at 150y is around 600, so at 100% dmage x3 thats 3600 damage put out. An MC Oli has 2000 structure and 1500 armour in the broadside.

[Barracuda69]

Historically, Pirates were NEVER in large ships? So you want even more cutter wars or what?

If this game was historical, crybabies would meet Cat o' nine tails!

[Abizuil]

Originally Posted by Jean StCroix There are a few things I have yet to figure out about what Pirates do, that has been nagging me a lot recently... Now, other advantages that Pirates have, that I don't like, is that no ship (until it is limited just to 4th rates) are off limits to a Pirate to capture. With the last patch allowing one to board at speeds up to 10 knots, this gives a pirate a chance to just make their way to a boat, as fast as possible, board, win, and you have any ship, regardless if you are outclassed by size, number of guns, or what... you still win!!! They have to wait only 2 hrs before they can go and capture another ship, and they can have a varitable armada waiting to set sail, whenever they lose a ship... so, while a Privateer is limited to what they can afford or is given by their society, a 'rat has the liberty of just going out, attacking, and if it is failed... set sail again in short order, no real loss. Also, the Pirates have all the best skills that other classes have, and have no real weakness overall as a class. Historically, Pirates were NEVER in large ships, and even the Queen Anne's Revenge was a small 20 gun friggate that had extra guns added to it, to bump it up to 40 guns. It wasn't anything like a Hurcules, it was more like an overgunned Postillion. Pirates were mostly in Sloops like the "Bermuda Sloop" which later became known as the "Burmuda Sloop of War" due to how many Pirates used them, and captured ships with tatics in small ships, not with captured SOL's or insanely designed "Hurcules 'Pirate' Frigats" or "Abbadon's Will" or what not. So, I find it sad that they should be able to use anything that they can capture, since historically, this is grossly inaccurate for the most part. They scuttled most "captured ships" due to they didn't want to be weighed down by the extra burden of such a large ship, and it wasn't fast enough or manouverable enough to do or go where the Pirate wanted.

Firstly, they are pirates, do you really think they wont take advantage of a chance to board and capture a Rate Ship. If the NO is stupid/unlucky enough to let a pirate in close enough and board him, then the pirate deserves that ship. It also balances PB's a tad, if pirates were not allowed to steal lineships, they would only create a red zone and try to maintain it indefinitly, what would you choose?

Secondly, they may have all good skills of the other classes, but that is also to balance the pirate nation. If they got a unique skill set, it would still require them to have all the skills a National can get. They are a one class nation (Untill 1.4) and they need all the advantages they can get. A pirates true strength lies in OS PVP, but they lack an easy access to Lineships for Port Battles, Good in one respect, bad in another. They also suffer a massive cash loot reduction since they dont have to spend as much money on ships.

Finally, I dont think ANY rate ships, beyond the odd 4th, ever made it to the Carribean, if you dont want pirates in big ships, take away big ships for nationals as well. This would lead to even more cutter wars, that so many people whine about.

Robert Hazel

[Captain Lackey]

Originally Posted by elessaria What you are probably seeing is the broken Ad-Hoc invisibility that lasts ~30secs after leaving an instance but which can be exploited to uber-stealth.

Ad-hoc invis lasts longer than that, much longer if you don't move too far. I'm wanting to say 90 seconds. A dev has said how long, but I don't care enough to find it.

[Jean StCroix]

Originally Posted by elessaria Is this a joke? On the offchance it isn't here's a few possibilities: 1/ Stealth has a hardcap at 15mi beyond which you can never, ever go. What you are probably seeing is the broken Ad-Hoc invisibility that lasts ~30secs after leaving an instance but which can be exploited to uber-stealth. 2/ Range mods. 3/ Desperation Fire 2 is a +40% damage shot. Sacrifice for Victory is +10%. With coarse powder and three damage generals anyone can hit 50% damage, giving those 3 Olis +100% damage every minute (skill cooldown). Broadside damage on a Heavy Oli at 150y is around 600, so at 100% dmage x3 thats 3600 damage put out. An MC Oli has 2000 structure and 1500 armour in the broadside.

Thank you for your replies, but you still haven't really addressed points 1 and 2, but did explain the 3rd point to an acceptable ammount.

1st, the Stealth still doesn't explain how a pirate can chase someone in the Open Sea, stay 3 to 5 miles away from you and only be visible when they target you. This is not the Ad-Hoc Invisibility, nor is it the Launching Invunerability from hopping out of a town. This is sailing in the Open Sea.

2nd, Range Mods? Do Explain. Long Barrel Cannons only go up to Medium Long Barreled Guns 3 +15.75% range, and then you have Artemis Cannon Exceptional gives only +9% range, or if you are using a SMALL ship Small Long Barreled Guns are 17.5%, giving only a maximum bonus of 26.5% extra range... which, an Arcadia MC (being a huge ship cannot use Medium or Small Long Barreled Cannons) max range without mods = 540 yards, which means with mods = 588.6 yards (589y rounded up); Oliphant Heavy's Range = 585 yards, translates to 637.65 yards (638y rounded up), since these seem to be fairly common favorates from when I have faced 'rats in the OS... To have a 500y disabling shot range, you need to get your Cannon Range to 1000y... don't see that happening. So, please, do explain this one to me.

[Jean StCroix]

Originally Posted by Abizuil Firstly, they are pirates, do you really think they wont take advantage of a chance to board and capture a Rate Ship. If the NO is stupid/unlucky enough to let a pirate in close enough and board him, then the pirate deserves that ship. It also balances PB's a tad, if pirates were not allowed to steal lineships, they would only create a red zone and try to maintain it indefinitly, what would you choose? Secondly, they may have all good skills of the other classes, but that is also to balance the pirate nation. If they got a unique skill set, it would still require them to have all the skills a National can get. They are a one class nation (Untill 1.4) and they need all the advantages they can get. A pirates true strength lies in OS PVP, but they lack an easy access to Lineships for Port Battles, Good in one respect, bad in another. They also suffer a massive cash loot reduction since they dont have to spend as much money on ships. Finally, I dont think ANY rate ships, beyond the odd 4th, ever made it to the Carribean, if you dont want pirates in big ships, take away big ships for nationals as well. This would lead to even more cutter wars, that so many people whine about. Robert Hazel

Alright... little history for you. Pirates only boarded UNARMED Merchant Ships, for historically, they were horrid at boarding combat, and usually ran from anything that could sink their ship. It is all in the history books, and you can feel free to do some research yourself if you don't believe me. Infact, Pirates NEVER boarded a naval ship with an armed crew as far as I could find. Naval ships would actually disable Pirate Ships, board them, and capture the pirate crew instead. Naval Boarding = how Jack Rackham and his crew were captured, if you haven't heard.

Another bit of history for you as well. Rate Ships have a full compliment of ROYAL MARINES, with Sharpshooters in Crows nests, and were better trained to fight on the deck of a ship, as well as better trained in general than that of a typical pirate crew member was. There are more Marines on a Rate Ship than ANY HISTORICAL PIRATE SHIP EVER HAD ON IT. The fact that this game makes the Pirates fairly powerful on boarding is a disservice to history. Unless if a Rate Ship was caught with it's crew drugged, drunk (and passed out), or poisoned, and unable to fight, would be the only way that any group of pirates could have ever imagined capturing a Line Ship. If anything, Line Ships should have either an inate ability to cut a smaller class ship's crew down by atleast 1/4 to represent the fact that they have Marines alreay shooting down boarders before they could even board. If the Line Ships do not get that, then the NO should get that as a skill to use with a 30 second cooldown.

Lastly, a NO friend of mine brought up one good point. There is no way that a Ship with over 400 crew, should be so evenly matched on waves as a ship with 200 or less. Even if they get raked with Grape shot, should it matter until the number of their crew is EVEN with the number of the boarder's crew. I agree (and I play a 50 Privateer day in and day out) with this, that if you are boarding a ship that has 400 crew with 200 crew, they should get double your waves, to represent the fact that they have double your crew. Your +1 wave that you get would be added on after they are doubled your number of waves. Since Privateers also have +1 Waves and +1 lvl of Boarders, I would respect that ruling.

[Pir ate]

Originally Posted by Jean StCroix Thank you for your replies, but you still haven't really addressed points 1 and 2, but did explain the 3rd point to an acceptable ammount. 1st, the Stealth still doesn't explain how a pirate can chase someone in the Open Sea, stay 3 to 5 miles away from you and only be visible when they target you. This is not the Ad-Hoc Invisibility, nor is it the Launching Invunerability from hopping out of a town. This is sailing in the Open Sea. 2nd, Range Mods? Do Explain. Long Barrel Cannons only go up to Medium Long Barreled Guns 3 +15.75% range, and then you have Artemis Cannon Exceptional gives only +9% range, or if you are using a SMALL ship Small Long Barreled Guns are 17.5%, giving only a maximum bonus of 26.5% extra range... which, an Arcadia MC (being a huge ship cannot use Medium or Small Long Barreled Cannons) max range without mods = 540 yards, which means with mods = 588.6 yards (589y rounded up); Oliphant Heavy's Range = 585 yards, translates to 637.65 yards (638y rounded up), since these seem to be fairly common favorates from when I have faced 'rats in the OS... To have a 500y disabling shot range, you need to get your Cannon Range to 1000y... don't see that happening. So, please, do explain this one to me.

Ive had my barshot range on my Lancer (when i was a NO) to >500 yards so there you go, HS was 620. Wheres this 50% range for speed debuffs??????? its the range of ur dismantling shot which when using barshot is not a whole lot less then HS.

[Jean StCroix]

Originally Posted by Pir a te Ive had my barshot range on my Lancer (when i was a NO) to >500 yards so there you go, HS was 620. Wheres this 50% range for speed debuffs??????? its the range of ur dismantling shot which when using barshot is not a whole lot less then HS.

It states in Cut Shroud (which is the skill I keep on getting hit by at ranges over 50% cannon max range) says that you need to have Dismantling Shot loaded. It will not allow you to do the shot otherwise. However, there is an ability that the Privateer has called "Cripple Enemy" that allows you to slow an enemy down by 10% speed with normal ball shot, but that isn't the 25% reduction of Cut Shroud. The fact that I see the graphics of dismantling shot (since my computer can manage that level of detail) instead that of ball shot. THAT is what I was wanting to figure out how Pirates can pull it off.

Also, how were you able to get Dismantling Shot to max range? It says it in the description of the ammo, that Dismantlign Shot is 50% Range and Anti Personnel is 60% Range. That is hard coded into the game, and thus why I am curious.

[Loktofeit]

Originally Posted by Jean StCroix Also, how were you able to get Dismantling Shot to max range? It says it in the description of the ammo, that Dismantlign Shot is 50% Range and Anti Personnel is 60% Range. That is hard coded into the game, and thus why I am curious.

Unless they made a recent change, Bar, Chain, and Star have all had different ranges and those ranges have been listed in both the description and the F1Help. I think it's Bar-90%, Chain-80%, and Star-50%.