The economic effects of ship insurance

[Spinnaker Sam]

Originally Posted by Loktofeit That is on the assumption that they start losing more ships or that more people start PvPing than currently are now. Spinnaker, have you started PvPing a lot more since 1.5? Have we seen an increase in the sinking of bundleships since 1.5?

I am leveling a Freetrader now so I am not doing any PvP at all. It isn't the cost that would stop me from PvPing, it would be the gank or be ganked mentality that is found within the Red Circles. I prefer quality fights over quantity of fights.

I also think it is too early to see the impact of 1.5. People have to get used to the changes. I'd give it a couple more weeks. Also realize that having the money isn't the same as having the materials to build the ships. It still takes time to gather and produce the large quantities of goods to make these ships. With the current populations that is hard to do unless you have a large enough society with dedicated producers and shipbuilders. So before people start throwing their bundleships into battles, they probably want to make sure they have the materials ready to build more.

[Loktofeit]

Originally Posted by Spinnaker Sam I am leveling a Freetrader now so I am not doing any PvP at all. It isn't the cost that would stop me from PvPing, it would be the gank or be ganked mentality that is found within the Red Circles. I prefer quality fights over quantity of fights.

Which is the argument that many of us presented - insurance doesn't suddenly put people in the red circles because the cost of loss wasn't the main factor to begin with. Do you think your view is indicative of the average reason people don't enter the circles? I honestly think it is. If that's true, then insurance doesn't help many people other than the ones already in the circles.

Originally Posted by Spinnaker Sam I also think it is too early to see the impact of 1.5. People have to get used to the changes. I'd give it a couple more weeks.

The majority of people inherently rush to use a gift or something free. Add to that, they will often be motivated by the simple promise of something free. The driving force is the fear of 'missing out' or not 'getting in on the ground floor' or 'it will be all gone by the time I get there.' People behave this way to an absurd degree. You see it in kindergarten classes when it's snack time and although there is always a box of 40 cookies for the 30 children, they will all rush to make sure they get their cookie. The most notable example of it is when AOL switched over to a flat rate fee. The month before switching, when fees were still 15 hrs base plus $3.95 an add'l hour, users hopped on AOL and spiked the traffic so massively that people couldn't log in for hours on end because of so many users online 24/7.

With the patch, FLS would have seen an initial spike of scuttling the first few days and a big surge in PvP. That should have happened whether insurance was a major or minor addition for the players. Only FLS can answer if either of those two events happened or not.

Originally Posted by Spinnaker Sam So before people start throwing their bundleships into battles, they probably want to make sure they have the materials ready to build more.

That completely defies human behavior. A person that was not prone to saving/preparation before will not suddenly start changing their basic nature because of a patch in a game.

[Duke Suraknar]

Originally Posted by Spinnaker Sam Both groups will still run into labor shortages and so even though they can both stockpile the component parts, they can still only produce a certain number of ships within a given period of time. So if the upper tier is using up ships faster than their labor can accumulate, then they will be in the same position as a lower tiered society.

And what is the problem with that? If they don't have a First rate to fight with they can come with a Deliverance or a normal Hercules to the fight.

Weren't line ships suposed to be "rare" ships, what does it matter is that rarity comes from cost or labor? They still can be rare and in between, but at the same time, the game overall becomes more fun for all.

Because in the end, lower or upper tier, we all pay the same subscription to play and all are entitled to have a fun experience independently of the level of organization and system of our society.

[honnolee]

Originally Posted by GB Isildur has said that the huge player economy was designed to function with 3 economic sinks. At present we effectively only have one (ship loss) which has proved to be insufficient to stimulate the depressed economy & markets. Ship insurance will effectively halve the only sink we have by reducing the cost of ship loss by 50%. We need more economic sinks not less. hmm will the amount of ship loss double to compensate?

I believe that FLS is addressing the wrong problem. It's not the money that has driven most of the players away, it's that time it takes to restore what you once had, and get back to where you once were.

If ever this was to be fixed, I think players would return in droves.

[Spinnaker Sam]

Once again, I think this is something that buy orders would solve. Imagine that you could post your shopping list and have other people come to your port to fill it. You wouldn't have to spend time looking for what you need, people would see your need and bring it to you. (Provided you priced it right).

People don't stockpile outfittings because they don't want to spend the time looking for them. With buy orders you could get your stockpile with no effort on your part outside of making the listing.

[Duke Suraknar]

Originally Posted by Spinnaker Sam Once again, I think this is something that buy orders would solve. Imagine that you could post your shopping list and have other people come to your port to fill it. You wouldn't have to spend time looking for what you need, people would see your need and bring it to you. (Provided you priced it right). People don't stockpile outfittings because they don't want to spend the time looking for them. With buy orders you could get your stockpile with no effort on your part outside of making the listing.

I don't think Buy orders will work with POTBS.

My structures have been shut down for 3 weeks now in POTBS. Producing in POTBS depends on the Individuals capacity to grind PVE...Producing in POTBS is a Tedium...so I limit my production to the needs of my society and my own.

On the other hand, in EvE producing for the market is one of the ways to make money in the game, mining Ore is Free. Plus it is a huge environment compared to POTBS, thousands of players can be part of a society, tens of thousands part of an alliance.

not quite the same lanscape of needs either.