The Shape of PvP to Come

[Xaphod]

Originally Posted by Snap Exercise skill and wits to control the engagement. Don't let your opponents move the fight so close to their reinforcement spawn point that you get overwhelmed in this way. Take the money and run when you get the chance, rather than fighting all comers until you're worn down to nothing. I'm not saying any of this is automatic -- it asks you to develop new skills and tactics. But I think that makes the game more challenging and fun.

- People do not play to run away. They play to win.

- Breaking off from a battle and running away isn't that easy anyway.

- Reinforcements only spawn 1000 yards away; that's a very short distance considering you're in a battle and that cut shroud is an easy thing to do, as is ramming and blocking someone so they can't get further away. Move them further away and they become pointless.

[elessaria]

Originally Posted by El Conquistador Sorry I think you're exaggerating a bit. I don't see how you could keep a large ship from ever reaching an exit point with a failboat. I've had entire groups chase me all the way across and instance many times and yet I still made the exit point.

About 40% of the OS battle rooms I see have no exit points. Seriously.

[Snap]

Originally Posted by Alejandra Test bed simply does not have the number of people or kinds of organised groups to prove this will work...it will look fine, then it will be released, then it will fail horribly just like the unrest system

That's why we're having the Testbed PvP event. No, it won't be a perfect simulation of live play, but we'll try to learn a lot from it anyway. It's the nature of the beast -- no amount of preparation and testing can predict what will happen when a change hits the complexity of a live MMOG.

[mikkelsr]

I forsee a red zone full of groups, and none of them attacking each other.

They are all waiting for them to be attacked, simply so their side can get the reinforcements.

[Undrsiege]

6vs6

group a
group b

Group a 6 attack group b 6 but only 1 enters. [Gank] 45 seconds later more enter and it is a real gank.

[elessaria]

Originally Posted by Snap Exercise skill and wits to control the engagement. Don't let your opponents move the fight so close to their reinforcement spawn point that you get overwhelmed in this way. Take the money and run when you get the chance, rather than fighting all comers until you're worn down to nothing. I'm not saying any of this is automatic -- it asks you to develop new skills and tactics. But I think that makes the game more challenging and fun.

It is hard enough to play as an underdog nation as it is Snap. Now you want to bring an added level of complexity to the table that is vital for the outnumbered sides and largely irrelevant to the overpopulated ones?


Take the money and run is the same as Economic Victory in port battles;

and look where that arguement got the game's Pirate RvR population...

[Snap]

Originally Posted by elessaria Spain on Rackham scraped 10 players for the Port Battle for Principe, and you think we'll have 10 sitting around on the OS waiting for a split group to get ganked?

No, though as we push server populations up (contrary to popular hysteria, they're currently trending upward and will do so much more dramatically in the near future) this will happen more. As I stated in the devlog, the fact that sometimes you've got help nearby and sometimes you don't creates an interesting variety of PvP situations. It means you've got to think, before entering the red circle, about what level of risk you're accepting.

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by elessaria There is no "exit strategy" for a 6-man heavy group. In the instance you cannot see outside. You don't know when that 20-strong team of Minerva MCs is sat outside waiting to zerg. All you know is that if they are: A/ They will catch you, B/ They will kill you, C/ There is nothing you can do about it.

I think youre exagerrating again. You make it sound so one-sided. Who's to say the 6 man team might not have high speed reinforcements of their own? Who says a 6 man heavy herc team should be immune to danger anyway? Why do herc varients have to remain the "king" of OS pvp?

You're "exit stratigy" might include the fact that a heavy herc is a liability and therefore the wrong tool for the job.

Ships may need to be re-balanced as time goes on though and shows that acceleration is no longer as powerful or desirable since the dynamic of battles has changed and it's no longer a sprinting contest.

I just think many of you are being stubborn and close minded.

[Snap]

Originally Posted by TheRooster Any time ships can suddenly appear out of thin air right next to you, that's a "bad thing". For instance, a lone big fat merchant ship sailing through the red zone gets hit by two pirates (so as to not be considered a gank.) Five of his buddies are sitting 100 miles away or even in dock nearby waiting for the call on vent. The merchant turns and sails to the reinforcement point and when the pirates get close, calls his buddies to join. They all happen to be in huge ships and end up one-shotting the pirates who had no chance because the reinforcements spawned into the instance within firing range. That, in my opinion, brings us back to the Murphy spawn problems.

Well, that's why we show the spawn points on the map. It's a known hazard, and if you get close you're taking that risk. Keep in mind, though, that reinforcements do spawn in at a dead stop, so it's not all sunshine for them either.

[TheRooster]

Originally Posted by Undrsiege 6vs6 group a group b Group a 6 attack group b 6 but only 1 enters. [Gank] 45 seconds later more enter and it is a real gank.

Yes. See my earlier post. This could be a big problem. It's also not fixed by counting everyone in the group when the group is hit because the attacker can't see how many people are in the group.