Garbad answers some questions on making Ships

[Danicia]

(Originally created by Garbad_the_Weak)

Quote:
Originally Posted by elgin
Hello Garbad,

As I was the only one in our nascent Guild in closed beta I have been tasked to work out a way to make use of our members lots to be a s self-sufficient in building as we can. I would be interested to learn how other guilds (Lords, St George, Corte de Sange, etc) approach that and that is the area input would be appreciated, but I see now you are actually working on your own, so maybe my question in the forums actually fell short of the mark, unless you have contacts with those guys?

Anyhow, for your interest, we will play British on the European Server, we have been in preparation for release for a few months now and currently have 8 members in the open beta and are looking to expand/recruit to take membership up to an initial cap of 20 people, following release. I have read up all the details about how to make things and understand this and can see from the map how resources are allocated. and what is rare. None of us are “crafters” or have any talent or inordinate interest in that aspect, we like pvp mainly and expect to lose ships and fittings.

I was the same, but I started with 4 people. My initial goal was simply to produce ships for the 4 of us to pvp, but it grew and I enjoyed it.

Your first hurdle will be determining a pricing system, if any. Real world principles apply -- communism or fixed prices are easy, inefficient, and will mean some people work harder for less reward. But if everyone can live with that, you can get your ships and go. Free market is far more complex, but will earn much more money and reward people based on their work. Virtually all guilds go communist. As far as I know, I am the only major producer who is a capitalist.

For the record, btw, I don't work alone. I have 42 partners, employees, and contractors in my business on live (it was much less in beta). Its just not a guild system (I'm not even an officer of my guild, and being a member of my guild doesn't mean you are in my business). I recruit talented, economy oriented players inside or outside of my guild or nation. I run a system of mutually beneficial supply contracts. Its all free will and free interest. People who love the economy tend to flock to me because I can promise competitive, market based prices, actual business and trade (rather than being just a cog in a machine), and a volume I doubt anyone can match.

Its a crapload of work to manage, but the money is good and its fun. Some day I will release my spreadsheets and records I use to manage the business. I imagine it will astonish people how complex it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elgin
We plan to base in Yucatan and build there, because that is where the mid level missions are, and we will need medium and heavy ships by the time we get there, which we want to build ourselves. We also plan to raid north south and east from there (and look at the Windwards later on). I think people mainly build in St Johns? We plan to build at Bluefields , as being easier for hauling and less prone to attack than Belize –

a) or is there any reason to go straight to Turtling with a view to making a larger Deep water shipyard there eventually or

It depends on if you want to make huge or above ships -- and you certainly don't have to! Medium shipyards can produce many excellent sellers, including sloops, cutters, xebecs, postilleon, locusts, cerberus, stralsund, and raa. You could easily run a business selling only those ships and do very well, which would mean you could base in Bartica or Bridgetown.

Personally, I run out of a deep harbor because I plan on selling the big dollar ships like SOLs. This is part business and part practicality -- I need to be able to replace the ships I lose in PvP (I pvp a lot) and larger ships are an easier market to corner (so few people can reliably produce huge ships supply is always lower than demand).

Its your call, and both can work very well. On a smallish guild, think of your priorities. Which is more important to you, making money or being able to build ships for yourself. Only running medium yards will reduce your pvp risk and shipping times, making you more money. On the other hand, you won't be able to build endgame ships for yourself and your guildmates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elgin
b) is there any completing reason why we should think again and base at St Johns and the Windwards?

SJ has the inherent advantage of being in the Antillies, meaning people in havana, tourtuga, and so on can see your offerings and buy them easily. It will increase sales. You can of course get around this by offering your goods in Port Royale, but its more of a hassle. In terms of access to materials, nothing tops SJ. It has less shipping times to all the big 5 than any other location. The only catch is poor access to some smaller goods (sulfur, grapes) and increased PvP risk. Just ask yourself how strong you expect your nation to be and how good your smugglers are if things go badly. If you can handle it, SJ is the best production center in the world. If you can't, Turtle has less risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elgin
c) Is there any other particular resource we ought to go out of our way to produce rather than buy in, on economic grounds? For instance I can see the attraction of basing someone in Charleston for Zinc and Teak.) maybe in time we could grab Irish Point or Puerto del Principe for that if we are successful in game)

The easiest way to control your profits is control your costs. The easiest way to control your costs is to produce as much as possible in house. In the cost of the average ship, perhaps 50% of the total cost is ironworks (cannons, anchors, mast hoops, nails, ship fittings) and anther 30% is oak (hulls). Take care of these two and you don't have to sweat the others as much.

Here are the big 5 (the 5 raw materials that make up perhaps 95% of the cost of a ship):

1. Iron Ore
2. Limestone
3. Oak
4. Fertile Soil (provisions, hemp)
5. Fir

Also, copper + zinc are significant on many types of ships, and depending on your volume lingum vitae and teak are next. The cost of the odds and ends, such as sulfur and ballast you don't care how much it costs, just so you get a steady supply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elgin
d) I have to research it, but understand Brits can get wine by trading fur (fir?), presumably with the European trader agent. Is there anything else obscure like that I should check out (I have looked at and understand iron fittings, sail and hulls but to date have done less work on provisioning and upgrading)

Eurotrading is optional, but potentially viable. It takes a lot of work in building reputation to be profitable, however. Its a little trick that may be worth learning, but is certainly not required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elgin
e) We have been experimenting with the classes but none of us has got very far with a freetrader – is it going to be essential to get at least one high level freetrader involved, e.g. to buy or build in foreign ports, oer can we get away with what we want to do, without making such a character?

FTers are all but essential, but not for foreign trading. You will need FTers to move the oak or hulls to move large ships. The most common solution is to level a FT alt to 19 and get a bark. Most people also buy a few junk ships to drop off in key ports (havana, cdm, turtle, SJ, campy, bartica, tampa) and buy the see all AH skill so they can look around for bargains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elgin
f) I think I know what recipes/books we will need – is there any rare or obscure recipe book we should particularly keep a look out for?

Naval provisioning and privateer provisioning seem to be the rarest books. Also you will need:

small ship const
med ship const
large ship const
bound
naval ship (sols)
waterstained plans
pommeran
poleacre

Maybe others, I forget. Its a crapload of money, so plan on good luck. Probably the single most important book is large, as it allows access to the raa and a few other essentials. You can get by without having a lot of the others if you have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elgin
g) How is it you got production of so many ships up and running so quickly! (you don’t’ have to answer that if it’s a trade secret!)

I am not sure what you mean. We are no faster than most, as we have to grind to 20/30 the same as everyone else. I suppose the only difference is I plan on the long term from day one.

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Originally Posted by Danicia (Originally created by Garbald_the_Weak)

Even Danica hates me >.<

[Danicia]

Sorry there!!! Eeeps! I was typing everything so fast yesterday. Fixxored!

(I apparently forgot how to use forums in the last 30 seconds also)

[Jalyfane]

lol, that's good stuff there.

[Terri19047]

Wow, will definately need to look up ships, since I'm a Naval Officer and need to be the tank! So to speak ...

[Twofive]

Originally Posted by Danicia Sorry there!!! Eeeps! I was typing everything so fast yesterday. Fixxored! (I apparently forgot how to use forums in the last 30 seconds also)

You should have left it.