Accuracy debuff with increased speed

[Kerrilyn]

Originally Posted by kblack Said that, I'd enjoy some reduction on speed buffs, and make big frigates slower... one thing is to face a bunch of hermes, and another to have a full pack of Khan, HSleeks, and Trinidad hunting you.

Yes, nurf teh goobery speed!

Also, the khan is ridiculous, it's a fluyt, they were designed for small crews and large cargo capacity with almost no defense, not to be some uber fast warship. If they wanted to give the FT something like that, they should have at least based it around an indiaman or warship of some sort!~~ tildemog~~~~~ *faints*

Some thingies I don't mind, like the presence of SOLs in the Caribbean (although 24v24 first rates should never happen T.T), or the oddball cargo hold sizes / items weights, etc, but a warship fluyt? what's next, a first rate bermuda? A gunboat with 4500/35 broadside armor? moggggggggggggggggg

Actually I'd like to test out that new bermuda first rate when it comes out. Please make sure it's a refit with at least 40% reload though. 40lb guns are slow~

[JackBlackP54]

Originally Posted by kblack Well, the "gank problem" is not so big a problem... I will call it a "nuisance" It is enough easy to avoid the ganks, or even the enemy.... just need to be careful, patience, and some tricks In fact, nowadays is hard to hunt anybody not willing to fight

No, the "gank problem" is still a really big problem. This game is fallen from high and
middle population servers to low population on nearly all nations and servers.
And the major reason of this fact is in my opinion still the so callled "gank problem".

If ganks was never in this game we still would hold lots of servers with high
and middle population. But "they" and a few gank fanboys decided it's great to gank.
So it's still there, and a real big number of players has ALREADY left this game because
of this stupid game mechanics.
Players will never stop to gank, ganking, split other players if it is still possible.
And this is the main problem why people avoid the red
or fitting their ships for speed.
This and the fact you can lose your ship and you must grind again....

"There is no crying in the red circle"......... absolutely failed

[chokai]

Just eliminate all group speed buffs as many many people have suggested. Problem (somewhat) solved.

Other possible ways to approach this:
1) Group speed buffs are always contextual and require some specific state to be present, ex Rescue Me's sail loss requirement for FTs.
2) Group speed *penalty*. More ships in the group take time to coordinate and command and hence respond slower than a single ship. i.e. -1% speed penalty for each additional ship in the group/instance (not in PBs) when they are "in combat".
3) Nerf top speeds of larger ships slightly (as noted above)
4) Require demasting/disabling skills to require actually *hitting* the target (unless this has changed, I haven't disabled or been disabled lately)

The larger problem is that even if we we eliminate the current focus on speed when it comes to ganking we will merely put the focus on some other attribute of the game. This is a deep seated architectural issue that can only be controlled, not fixed IMO.

** made a bunch of edits as I thought more about this over lunch...

[SkttLes]

Originally Posted by Jejerod Give +speed sails a big -sail health. You want to go fast? kk, just make sure nobody hits you with a Caribbean handbrake. So basically the best you can have is 1 general and 2 hull fittings for speed. You may add sails, sacrificing sail health.

But the problem is, when it's 6v1, the 6 ships don't need sail health. The one solo guy getting ganked does. You are nerfing the people using speed to avoid ganks, and helping the people doing the ganking.

rest I agree with.

[Jejerod]

Originally Posted by SkttLes But the problem is, when it's 6v1, the 6 ships don't need sail health. The one solo guy getting ganked does. You are nerfing the people using speed to avoid ganks, and helping the people doing the ganking.

Hmmm not really sure. If you want to run, just stay out of range for sailshot and, well, run. If you are stupid enough to get tagged on bad wind with a failfit, well, you're a goner.

In a 6vs1 situation it will still help, and remember the other changes will make gankboats a bit slower as well.

[Josh_Brown]

Originally Posted by SkttLes But the problem is, when it's 6v1, the 6 ships don't need sail health. The one solo guy getting ganked does. You are nerfing the people using speed to avoid ganks, and helping the people doing the ganking. rest I agree with.

Also, it really doesn't make a lot of sense for a sail plan that can endure the forces required to draw the ship to higher speeds to be weaker - maybe a reduction is defense, but certainly not sail strength.

Though I do agree, it wouldn't help the guy getting ganked either way.

The suggestions about general slots isn't bad either. Lightweight guns should carry a penalty to range/damage.

[MrSardonicus]

One of the things that I've noticed since I started playing PotBS is that the Freetrader is supposed to be a defense oriented class...BUT so often I see them in "offensive" roles on the OS in PvP. Am I the only one that sees a disconnect here? Often the fastest ships in a "gank squad" are freetraders...and of course they are the hardest to damage as well. Is it that...somehow, somewhere...the line that defines offensive and defensive skillsets has become blurred? A lot of FT ships *cough* Khan Flute *cough* are so fast and well armored that they neutralize the advantage of being a NO, Priv, CT, or even a Bucc?

It wasn't that long ago when 3 rats one lvl35, one lvl20-ish, and myself a lvl50 Bucc took on a single lvl50 FT in a Khan and to this day I cant figure out how he sank all three of us even though we were all firing at him (and hitting) at the same time...focus fire was totally useless against this 1 FT/Khan. I haven't played an FT...are their repair buffs so insane that they can shrug off that kind of damage (he would drop into the yellow or orange and then was fixed)? Are their speed buffs so ridiculous that they can bolt out of range in no time flat? Whats the deal here?

[Josh_Brown]

Originally Posted by Kerrilyn Also, the khan is ridiculous, it's a fluyt, they were designed for small crews and large cargo capacity with almost no defense, not to be some uber fast warship. If they wanted to give the FT something like that, they should have at least based it around an indiaman or warship of some sort!~~ tildemog~~~~~ *faints* Some thingies I don't mind, like the presence of SOLs in the Caribbean (although 24v24 first rates should never happen T.T), or the oddball cargo hold sizes / items weights, etc, but a warship fluyt? what's next, a first rate bermuda? A gunboat with 4500/35 broadside armor? moggggggggggggggggg

I think of the Khan as basically an indiaman made from a fluyt. Still, I'd think it should at take some sort of penalty to cargo capacity for all those additional guns, and I don't really know how adding all that mass above the waterline improves acceleration and turning accel. The crew increase is just ridiculous, I could stomach crew in the low 300's maybe, but 465 is over the top. Again, especially since there is no decrease in cargo volume - where do they all sleep? Defense boost may be a bit high, too - I like that it's a different spec increase instead of uber-armouring it or something, but I don't get how you add that much more onto a ship and it becomes more nimble and a much smaller target at the same time.

[MrSardonicus]

/totallyagree


Another question is...How can a ship that is Larger and heavier than a Cerberus Frigate (a naturally decent turning ship) out-turn one?

[Josh_Brown]

Originally Posted by MrSardonicus One of the things that I've noticed since I started playing PotBS is that the Freetrader is supposed to be a defense oriented class...BUT so often I see them in "offensive" roles on the OS in PvP. Am I the only one that sees a disconnect here? Often the fastest ships in a "gank squad" are freetraders...and of course they are the hardest to damage as well. Is it that...somehow, somewhere...the line that defines offensive and defensive skillsets has become blurred? A lot of FT ships *cough* Khan Flute *cough* are so fast and well armored that they neutralize the advantage of being a NO, Priv, CT, or even a Bucc?

Well, the FT has great running speed, and strong DPS. They can also 'repurpose' escape skills like deter pursuit and dump guns to act as tacklers, as CTs are sometimes accused of doing. However, they don't close-haul well and neither do most of their class ships, which presents the optimal escape opportunity for a Rat or PT, IMO.

Originally Posted by MrSardonicus It wasn't that long ago when 3 rats one lvl35, one lvl20-ish, and myself a lvl50 Bucc took on a single lvl50 FT in a Khan and to this day I cant figure out how he sank all three of us even though we were all firing at him (and hitting) at the same time...focus fire was totally useless against this 1 FT/Khan. I haven't played an FT...are their repair buffs so insane that they can shrug off that kind of damage (he would drop into the yellow or orange and then was fixed)? Are their speed buffs so ridiculous that they can bolt out of range in no time flat? Whats the deal here?

Haven't actually played the FT, but from what I've read, heard, and gleaned from looking over the skill-set...

Strengths:
Great running speed
Great Defense
Ok DPS
Great burst DPS
Good Burst Resistance
Exceptional Repairs
Lots of click-buffs help morale management
Never lose accel
Turning, accel, and reload buffs help with crew losss penalties

Weaknesses:
Relatively few spikes
Very few debuffs
No Crew heals
Low accuracy
Repair skills require consumables (more a problem for noobs)
Very few toggles - click-buffs can leave vulnerabilities during cool-downs
No spike survival abilites - vulnerable to spikes, particularly in group combat
Some survival skills come with a price - like self-damage or crew vulnerability

From a defensive standpoint, the FT can meet and likely overcome anything a Bucc can dish out, though it's less powerful offensively. It's possible to try to outlast their buffs, but this can be a bit of a gambit since they can out-repair all other classes. The Khan compensates for several weakness the FT - the guns have good base acc due to their size, the high crew leaves them less likely to take penalties, good sail strength makes the FT even less vulnerable to de-masting - and builds on several strengths, with it's high defense and reload bonuses. Additionally, the repair and maneuvering skills of the FT compensate for the only real weakness of the Khan, it's fairly poor armour and unremarkable handling qualities. The end result is pretty vicious.