Privateer and Pirate

[Sabbathius2]

I was reading PvP and Conquest forum, and there's a post asking why Pirate raided ports flip back after 3 days and how it affects the Pirate chances of winning the map. And this got me thinking about Nationals and Pirates, but more specifically Privateers and Pirates.

Privateers are obviously Nationals, so the port they take gives 10 points as long as they hold is, and 3 points the first time each individual port is captured.

Pirates only get 3 points every time the port is raided (even the same port), but it flips back to previous owner after 3 days. So the end result for the owner Nation of the port is a loss of 10 points for 3 days, after which those 10 points are restored to them.

The argument was, raiding ports is more financially affordable for Pirates compared to Nationals since they can capture ships.

But this got me thinking, just how much money are Pirates saving compared to Nationals, or more specifically compared to Privateers, since both are found in early contention zones before they become free for all.

As a Privateer of rank 20+ you get 20% more gold from NPC kills with your passive career skill (called Plunder I think). You also get 100% of the NPC loot. So killing an NPC past lvl 20 gives you 120% loot per kill.

As a Pirate, the loot you take from NPCs is reduced by 80%. So from an identical NPC kill, a Pirate walks off with 20%, while the Privateer walks off with 120%, per kill. Pirates do get Salvage at lvl 10, but I'm not entirely sure how useful that skill is.

Mission rewards are same, regardless of Pirate or National, so that source of revenue is identical and cancels eachother out. Production and Economy are more or less the same as well. Granted Nationals lose ships so for them economy is critical, while Pirates capture ships so for them the economy isn't critical at all.

But my question is this: if Privateers doing missions killing NPCs and grinding in open sea get 120% of the loot, and Pirates get 20% of the loot, plus whatever they get with Salvage skill, plus a ship capture with 1 durability point every 2 hrs, do Pirates still come out on top, or can Privateers simply keep up because they make obscene amounts of cash? Or does Salvage have hidden depths that I've missed? Or Pirate loot table better than National?

[Corison]

First Pirates only get a 80% reduction in the DB.. Not drops
Privateers only get a 20% increase in the DB.. Not Drops

Most real money comes from drops anyways.

Privateers have to spend large amounts on DB for Ships.. Pirates dont. Salvage also gives captured ship deeds.

All in all balances out rather well.

[Sabbathius2]

Yeah, I should have said gold from a kill. At lvl 12, the National chars I have are making between 300 and 400 db per kill, plus whatever drops. Pirate at same level was only getting about 80-90 db per kill. This is before Privateer's Plunder kicks in, otherwise it would be 400 db for NO, 480 db for Priv and 80 db for Pirate.

Say you kill 20 ships during missions per level (I think that's about right), at 400 db per kill beng 100% reward. Rough numbers only. That gives 8k to NO, 9.6k to Priv, and 1.6k to Pirate. That's per 20 kills at lvl 12, but assuming Privateer already has Plunder, which he can't until lvl 20. That's just for comparison.

Now, at lvl 12, the most expensive ship (Mediator Cutter, I think) is only 12k db, with 4 durability. While Pirates can get an identical ship, but with 1 durability, for free every 2 hrs. Assuming drops are the same for everyone, because I know quest reward db amounts are the same, that doesn't balance itself very well. Pirates do have an edge when it comes to bare ship, but once you factor in the fittings and 1 durability vs 4 durability, it's not that hot. Especially when looking at it in the context that per raided port Pirates get 3 points and only hold it for 3 days, while Nationals get 13 points and hold it forever (unless it is retaken by non-Pirate nation).

I'm just trying to work out in general terms if Pirates are at a disadvantage when it comes to map victory, all other things being the same.

[Corison]

Your missing out on a couple big facts.

The pirate wont go for the Mediator. They will go for the Mastercraft. Huge difference in value for a National. Same effort for a Pirate.

Every two hours does not count salvage ship deeds. I know I picked up 2 MC Corsair Xebec deeds in about 3 hours of OS hunting yesterday. Lucky yes, but it happens. Even if its not a deed you want, you can then turn around and sell it for a few more DB.

Overall Pirates have less cash but they dont need to spend it on ships. Many Nationals can go for ages without a new ship because they can't afford it. Pirates can spend all of their cash on upgrades/supplies.

I have played both up to the high 40's and it balances out rather well. The extra income from salvage combined with the free ships more then makes up for the lack of raw DB. DB drops from ships are a small portion of the net income for most players.

[Sabbathius2]

Well, yes, that helps a lot.

I guess I have to play my Pirate a bit more. I only had Salvage for 1 level, and haven't seen a single deed from it, probably just bad luck.

[Corison]

Caputred Deeds are fairly rare.. I went two days without seeing one once then managed 4 or so in a couple hours of play.

Play it out for a while.. I found the ability to capture a ship VERY useful. If I wanted to try something new.. I just grabbed. I didnt have to worry about buying it, or even using it again if I didnt like it. It was free, so I can just toss it.

I think you will find the DB loss fairly minor compaired to the advantages. I think less then 1/6th of my total income comes from DB drops.

[C4Dillon]

Captured deeds are rare, but not too much so - I would say every fifth or sixth ship on average (might start keeping track actually, that's just my idea from doing it a lot)

The trick there is finding the ship you want to capture/scavenge a deed for. It's not a huge deal but some are harder to find than others, though it's usually just knowing where to look.

[Sabbathius2]

Just spent 20 mins sailing in a big huge circle trying to find a Mediator for my lvl 12 Pirate. Finally found one.

And yes, my numbers above seem quite a bit off, my lvl 12 Pirate is getting around 150 doubloons from randoming the crew per NPC kill, that's double of what I thought he'd be getting. And I already collected 4 deeds, though all of them for lousy ships I'll never use.

So it looks like things are pretty even. My lvl 12 NO, Privateer and Pirate all have Mediator Cutter, and each has 20k gold +/- 2k. So looks like it's more or less balanced after all. My Pirate does have 1 durability and NO and Priv have 4 each, but nothing's stopping me from hopping into a Bermuda and grabbing a new Cutter.

[Mr Grumpy]

While any cash a pirate gets might be spent on upgrades, it doesnt take much to lose it all again ie durability 1.

[Grinn]

I rather like how privateers and pirates balance. Privateers have access to better ships, however, they must cling to those ships desperately and they won't necessarily have enough money left over to get the best outfittings. Pirates, on the other hand, can grab a ship, fully outfit it, and recklessly storm contested waters in search of plunder or a fitting death. I don't believe pirates are at any real disadvantage. Sure, we can't really win the game, but that shouldn't be our goal. Each individual pirate or pirate society's goal should be to amass the largest pile of booty possible. For pirates it's all about me, not the crown, not the crime boss, and not the "Pirate Nation". Me, me, me!

Mr. Grumpy, as I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, outfittings are lost regardless of one's durability. Is that not true?