Polititcs Thread

[jdf]

Originally Posted by stokes234 In the civilised world, you can't get your healthcare "dropped". Hows your "twice as expensive per person for same effect but not even universal" healthcare working out for you? We need a politics thread.

Everybody, including Americans, should have access to affordable healthcare.

No carbon based electricity generation should be added in areas where peak-demand growth and shortfalls can instead be met by renewable energy at incremental additional cost, which is just about everywhere.

Those who disagree are pansies.

[Thrilldo]

They're climbing in your windows, they're snatching your people up...

[mud117]

I <3 Jules.

[KeithBain]

Heh, thanks for the outlet.. every problem we have today has its origins with the economic system in place. Fix that and we might start moving in the right direction again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nER...layer_embedded

take this quiz where on the chart do you fall?

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz

The other big debate in the room is what is a 'right'. Define what is a right and what isn't and we might start getting somewhere too.

Why is it that Americans have access to affordable cell phones/plans and computers only 10-20 yrs after their introduction to the marketplace? Hell computers were a big deal back in the day (1990+).. I remember only the rich kids had computers when I was a kid. 10 yrs later and a PCs/laptops are available to any kid with a job pushing shopping carts (or mommy's credit card). Not a single cellicare or PCaid programs that I know of that caused that kind of access. I remember being the poor kid during that phase.. try doing the second draft on a 3 page report long hand.. knowing the rich kid was deleting a word here and paragraphing there.. done 10 minutes.. I had to write the whole report over three times.. before the final draft... lol.. so glad the mktplace worked.. my kids won't have that issue.

Something is impeding the the natural tendency of the mktplace to get affordable healthcare to the common man. With something as lucrative as the healthcare industry.. there should be suppliers (be it insurance or healthcare providers) up the wazoo in every aspect to the healthcare industry flooding the mkt with options. but what do we have today? A monopoly on the insurance aspect.. a monopoly on the hospital side.. and what did we learn monopolies do back in civics class?? Hospitals get to control the competition in the states they are in. No new hospital is built in the USA without getting approval by the existing hospitals in that state as to whether there is a need in that state (yeah crazy but true). Few industries have that kind of control over the competition. I bet Dell and Apple wish they had that kind of control over the PC world.. but they don't.. and we have $400 dollar PCs that WORK and are reliable. Until you force the current players in the game to worry about competition you will continue to see prices rise. Let Demand be met by supply!

How long has healthcare been in the mktplace? Is it a marketable item? I think it is. Just because a guy decides to fix cars doesn't mean he is forced to fix yours. as much as a doctor chooses to learn the trade of medicine.. he shouldn't be forced to provide that service to anyone.

rant over.. appreciate it jdf

my opinion only.. let her rip... So many days in a truck cab (listening to NPR can't stand Glenn Beck or Rush or other talking mouth *NPR comes close but still bearable yet biased in the other direction) with no outlet ... it builds up lol

[Sarah_Daggers]

And the debate begins......



./buffpostcount

[Excel Kleinwald]

Originally Posted by Sarah_Daggers And the debate begins...... ./buffpostcount

Thankfully, everyone's inbuilt confirmation bias will prevent any opinions that do not square with our own from clogging up our lives.

[stokes234]

Originally Posted by junta1483 Something is impeding the the natural tendency of the mktplace to get affordable healthcare to the common man.

I believe it is a combination of a few things things. Firstly, hospitals and drug companies are so expensive to set up that not many people are going to try it without a sure chance of success anyway. You get less competition in the more expensive businesses because you're going to need a few hundred million behind you to even have a chance of joining the running.

Secondly, governments can run healthcare with alot less expenses. A government run organisation doesn't need to spend money on advertising, it doesn't need to pay people to find loopholes allowing them to reject insurance claims, it doesn't need to put as much money into the financial side of things, and it suffers alot less from rich people ******** a disproportionate share off the top. In my understanding, that is why healthcare in the UK costs half as much as in america.

Thirdly, because in america you actually have to question whether or not you can afford healthcare, conditions get left longer before treatment. In many cases, the longer you leave a medical problem before getting it treated, the more expensive it gets to actually treat it.

I think you're also right that the monopolies in place are using unsavoury methods to prevent new competition, but I don't think you would see a huge influx of new hospitals if america did manage to enforce it's anti-monopoly laws. Assuming you have them, I don't actually know.

[Marcus_Agrippa]

Wellbeing of your fellow human being should not be a business issue first or an opportunity to make financial profit.

[jdf]

Originally Posted by stokes234 Secondly, governments can run healthcare with alot less expenses. A government run organisation doesn't need to spend money on advertising, it doesn't need to pay people to find loopholes allowing them to reject insurance claims, it doesn't need to put as much money into the financial side of things

I like the UK health care system, but your logic seems a bit flawed to me as it could be applied to everything...ie, it your conclusions are true about health care, why not extend it so that there is centralized government control of everything? We know that doesn't work out so well.

[Slevin MacKnife]

Originally Posted by jdf No carbon based electricity generation should be added in areas where peak-demand growth and shortfalls can instead be met by renewable energy at incremental additional cost, which is just about everywhere. Those who disagree are pansies.

is never going to happen regardless of how nice it sounds on paper. renewable energy costs FARRR too much for what it does with current technology and its going to be 10's of years before that changes. right now you have the choice of nuclear or carbon. renewable is not sustainable, as you cannot sustain the future population's energy demands purely off renewable energy sources.

people will not pay more for their energy if they do not have to, and right now that means carbon is always going to come out on top. hell the technology exists to remove practically all the co2 and sulphur emissions from coal power stations, but it raises the cost by 40% and people are not willing to pay 40% more if they do not have to.

bottom line: carbons and nuclear will be around for the next 100-200 years, which will give us the time to develop viable renewable technology, but until such technology exists its pointless trying. sure people will claim they are happy to pay more for their electricity, but as soon as it comes to them actually signing a cheque 99% of people will pick the cheaper option, regardless of what it means for the environment.


its also worth questioning why ppl keep complaining that carbons arent sustainable. they are sustainable for my entire lifetime thats for sure. they are only not sustainable if we have no alternative left when they do run out, but we know this is not true - its the reason technological research is being carried out.

look at the history of mankind - we started hunting/gathering which was fine, but certainly wasn't indefinitely sustainable. hence we switched to farming. we didnt die because we used up the vast majority of an unsustainable food source - we merely used the time before it ran out to learn and adapt to other sources of food.