Pirates and Frigates

[Capitane Jean]

then again, weren't it pretty common that anti-piracy jobs were handeled by lieutenants in sloops-of-war as well?

[tecumseh]

You occasionally see a pirate in a sloop. And you often see them in small light ships , Xebecs.

Pnakotic pretty well put his finger on the reason though. In game we cant overman a sloop and pack it to the gun'nls with hundreds of blood thirsty crew. We cant rearm it with 32 pound carronades and sail in too fast to track, and so close that a frigates guns can't be depressed enough, and smash a heavy hull to splinters. Nor can we rearm it with long nines to hit from extreme range. There are no blockades to run (The game version of a blockade is at best simplistic). We cant use sloops, schooners,cutters and other small ships as fireships to burn an enemy to the waterline., or bomb ketches to bombard forts., and the biggie, there are no shoaling, and shallow waters to give a shallow draft vessel an advantage over a heavier deep draft hull.
In short, none of the incentives that led RL pirates to use small fast craft in the RW are present in the game.

[Georgiana Jennings]

Originally Posted by tecumseh You occasionally see a pirate in a sloop. And you often see them in small light ships , Xebecs. Pnakotic pretty well put his finger on the reason though. In game we cant overman a sloop and pack it to the gun'nls with hundreds of blood thirsty crew. We cant rearm it with 32 pound carronades and sail in too fast to track, and so close that a frigates guns can't be depressed enough, and smash a heavy hull to splinters. Nor can we rearm it with long nines to hit from extreme range. There are no blockades to run (The game version of a blockade is at best simplistic). We cant use sloops, schooners,cutters and other small ships as fireships to burn an enemy to the waterline., or bomb ketches to bombard forts., and the biggie, there are no shoaling, and shallow waters to give a shallow draft vessel an advantage over a heavier deep draft hull. In short, none of the incentives that led RL pirates to use small fast craft in the RW are present in the game.

No offence, but your post seems ill-informed.

The fundamental reason the pirates didn't use heavy ships is not that that they had incentives to use smaller ships, but that they had no incentive to use bigger ships. Pirates were after profits; fighting the navy would have been at best pointless, at worst a huge sink for their resources. It's easier to run than to fight, and if you're only attacking people who **** their trousers as soon as you raise the Jolly Roger, you don't need big guns or even hundreds of bloodthirsty crew, much less fireships.

Also, carronades weren't even invented in PotBS' timeframe, bomb- and fire-ships were seldom (never?) used by pirates.

[Diego La Santa]

Originally Posted by Georgiana Jennings No offence, but your post seems ill-informed. The fundamental reason the pirates didn't use heavy ships is not that that they had incentives to use smaller ships, but that they had no incentive to use bigger ships. Pirates were after profits; fighting the navy would have been at best pointless, at worst a huge sink for their resources. It's easier to run than to fight, and if you're only attacking people who **** their trousers as soon as you raise the Jolly Roger, you don't need big guns or even hundreds of bloodthirsty crew, much less fireships. Also, carronades weren't even invented in PotBS' timeframe, bomb- and fire-ships were seldom (never?) used by pirates.

Now that is a well informed post and I thank you...all is completly true.
And also just for info, Carronades were invented well into the late 1770's, in fact the Royal Navy didnt use the first one until 1779 but even then it never entered full service until almost 15 years later

[Payne.]

Blackbeard purposefully destroyed his only large ship, the 40 gun Queen Anne's Revenge, because her size, crew requirements and easy recognition made her a liability...

[Capitane Jean]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most frigates would be able to fire away on the downroll, not to mention the marines who have a wonderful firing position from the "high ground" to the smaller ship...

[Diego La Santa]

2 things, We are taking about pirates which didnt relly use frigates, and 2, Pirates never had Marines!!! besides pirates never engaged in fights against Any navy! it was a bad fight and there was no profit to it at all.

[Capitane Jean]

Originally Posted by LuckyNelson 2 things, We are taking about pirates which didnt relly use frigates, and 2, Pirates never had Marines!!! besides pirates never engaged in fights against Any navy! it was a bad fight and there was no profit to it at all.

Both the frigate and the marines were, in my scenario, national navies, not rats. As an answer to the idea a few posts ago where pirates would:

"rearm it with 32 pound carronades and sail in too fast to track, and so close that a frigates guns can't be depressed enough, and smash a heavy hull to splinters."

[Diego La Santa]

Dude they DID NOT HAVE CARONNADES BACK THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They werent invented until the late 1770's close to 1779. And they never fought national navies as it was a loosing proposition either way. There was no profit to be had from fighting warships.

I would also like to point out that although Blackbeard sailed the 40 gun Queen Anne's Revenge, she was infact a merchant ship of barely 25 guns. He added the guns himself and cut extra gunports.

[tecumseh]

I was simply trying to explain the advantages of small ships, in naval combat. And to offer my opinion on why we dont see them often used by ANYONE.
And I may be ill linformed or maybe just downright ignorant, but if you do your homework you'll find historical situations that small ships were used very successfully in the manner which I described.

But WTF do I know?