Round Table: Ship Recipes and Ships

[Hootuk Myrum]

I think the blind AH is kind of necessary. If it's open to see the listed price, then the hardcore multi-account FT's will be able to list a price that yields them 5% profit margin. 5% is ok for them because of the sheer volume of goods that they pump out. But 5% over their cost is oventimes 10% under the rest of ours.

The only way I currently am able to make money on the AH is to list an item very cheaply and rely on the laziness of others to just put in the last sell price. Take that away, and here is at least one moderate producer that will see time better spent (read: more profitable) engaged in other activities.

SC fleeting anyone?

[Branko_de_Brus]

There is no problem if some people do not feel doing economy is worth their time. If enough people stop doing production, then prices will go up, driving more people to produce, if too many people produce, prices go down, driving people away from production.

It's a self-regulating system, which will have a tendency to balance around the point where time-wise it is roughly equally worth it to do eco for money and to fleet for money.

[Hootuk Myrum]

When I say I'm a moderate producer, I mean I have over 160 econ slots. But even I can't compete with the likes of some of these economic juggernauts. How will the rest do it? I fear that removing the blind AH will lead to a massive disincentive to produce...

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by wbcochran When I say I'm a moderate producer, I mean I have over 160 econ slots. But even I can't compete with the likes of some of these economic juggernauts. How will the rest do it? I fear that removing the blind AH will lead to a massive disincentive to produce...

between me and my wife, we have what 20 slots, with a couple of ftp accounts with 2, so maybe 24 eco slots and we can turn out ships and lsb. so im some what not getting your just a moderate producter with 160 slots.....

[Leliaan]

Its called player driven economy and its works more than perfectly in EVE, if you cant make profit because someone got more brain, taking more effort to run his economy on higher levels then you have 2 choices, improve your economy to make it more profitable or just stop doing it.
Its like fleeting, you got a 1st rate you make money faster simple like this just with brain.

I usually dont even make anything for sale other than a few type of ships because you cant be sure if your goods are even worth selling somewhere.
The blind AH ruins this beautiful economy system, anyone who played EVE know what i talking about.
With visible AH probably you will cant milk stupid profits from lazy people anymore, but the supply/demand system will be well balanced, easy to see trough and fair for everyone.

I think every serious econ lover agree with this and even casual econ guys will still be able to make good profit, theres many ports and many many materials, fittings, ships, consumables, they will just need to think a bit and keep an eye on the market.

[Branko_de_Brus]

I produce ships and outfittings with my own good old 10 slots, and in the current system, I make a decent amount of doubloons with it (160 slots is just crazy and I suspect not very time-efficient managing them, else you'd be swimming in doubloons). Of course, if a number of unemployed grinders start flooding the market with hundreds of things with only 5% markup, I may not do production anymore, if there are no items with higher markups.

However, I will be better off, since then I need to spend less time making money to afford ships, since with the time I save hauling and producing, I can now, eg. fleet and be able to afford more ships per unit of time spent making money, since with a 5% markup you only lose 15% of the price for vanillas and 35% of the price for bundleboats.

In effect, if they drive the profit margin very low, they do a lot more work so the rest of us can get richer. I don't mind. If they don't, then we all make money producing.

[Joseph Fletcher]

Feedback summery first:

I don't have a problem with the blind auction system. But I do agree that it is not the norm. An open system will be used more.

The open pricing system should make hauling a more attractive career as it'll be easier to do for profits.

Sure people will moan about change, but if you are open as to why and how then people will come on board.



Now the long explanation:

I completely agree with 1 ship per recipe. It keeps the system simple and also you have a direct comparison between the input cost and the ship cost. I'm going to assume that costs and inputs would be balanced to match.

I also love the idea of being logical with materials and the output. Having more guns of a large hull resulting in less cargo capacity makes sense, more so for master craft and refits, which are essentially the same ship fitted differently. Again it would allow you to look at a recipe and see, that ship has a lot of guns, it's going to have little room for cargo.

These are the sort of changes which make the game more logical and to an extend realistic. Rather than arbitrary numbers, people can work out how something works by looking at it's components. That grounds the game in reality and helps with immersion.

[Grutte Pier]

you guys realize the consquence of 1 ship per recipe?
what to do with LSB? keep them the same?
1 lsb for 1 HH dura? or 3 LSB for 1 Pherc.....
that sounds a bit ridiculous to me,
PB will be fought with dauntlesses....

people will fleet SC twice as much just to afford a ship,
wich they then not dare to take out in the redzone

1 per recipe sounds horrible to me, unless the labour of LSB drops by 2/3 the hours 2/3 the items
same goes for stuff as large rigging and hulls

3 per recipe for all ships is much easier to implement and is much more close to the situation we have now,

not that i care much for a change at all, but making ships cost 3 times more i would care about, i would hate it

[Remus]

Originally Posted by Grutte Pier you guys realize the consquence of 1 ship per recipe? what to do with LSB? keep them the same? 1 lsb for 1 HH dura? or 3 LSB for 1 Pherc..... that sounds a bit ridiculous to me, PB will be fought with dauntlesses....

The only ship recipe that uses LSBs and makes more than one deed is the SMTG.

Are you thinking of durability?

[Grutte Pier]

yup, arent we all? did i miss something?:P

if deeds hmm then i didnt say anything, well maybe one thing,
make all deeds have 3 dura?