Nerf break rudder

[Aristocrates]

The damage to the rudder of the Bismarck rendered her unsteerable because she did not have sails.

[Capitane Jean]

Originally Posted by CJFlint Wanna know something interesting....The "Bizmark" http://www.battle-fleet.com/pw/his/bizm.htm which was a huge WW2 german battle ship, said to be unsink-a-ble by a torpedo bomber, had her rudder broken which lead to her demise. Basicly the bizmark became un turnable and fell right into a trap. I think rudder breaking is vary relevant to Naval warfare in present times and past. It should be shown in the game.

With risk of being called Capitane "Turn without rudder" Jean, I need to point out that engine driven warships are also able to turn without a rudder, in this case by altering thust on the different propeller shafts (naturally this requires at least two operating propellers, similar to how tanks and other tracked vehicles do). The Bismarck however, had a faulty design in this aspect, which was noted already on sea trials, that she* could not turn by propellers - even by backing one side and running the other side maximum forward, something that normally even enables ships to turn on the spot, only gave slight turning ability.

*Traditionally ships are called "She", but the Bismarck's captain ordered that a ship so imposing was to be called "He"

[Capitane Jean]

Originally Posted by elessaria [Explains in beautiful detail]

Interesting, thanks! I assume that you will have to take it easy on the sails, i.e. no pulling them sheets [that's what I mean right?] too hard, to be able to balance the rig?

[CJFlint]

The style of sail boat I have sailed on "The Gaff Rig", pretty much like a sloop in game could turn without rudder. But not nearly as fast if the rudder was applied. So you guys are right in sence you can turn a sail boat without rudder. But not nearly as fast as you could with rudder. Sails and rudder are used in concert while sailing. You can turn using multible props WITH rudder as well. Using a rudder no matter what to turn a vessel is ideal. Most helmsmen that us multible props for turning its generaly for docking or making tight turn in say like a marina. Without rudders your kind of crippled in either situwation sail or modern rudders are cridical. Leaving out tug boats with props on each side of the ship....thats alittle different.

As far as the game Id say allow the preson effected by the break rudder spike to be aloud to turn alittle bit to reflect the sails role in turning. So 1 minute with say 80 to 90 precent turn rate loss.

I mean if we really want to go realistic, the rudder damage should last far more then a minute. Rudders are not easy to fix on real boats. You ahve to take them out of the water to fix somthing like that or hire a diver, unless the damage is intenal. But keeping in mind this is a game and most who play it, probably dont care that much...one minute works.

[captain willis]

Originally Posted by Otsego -50% turnrate for 1 minute with 2 minutes cd? Seriously? Make it either hit-dependant, so you get like 40% if you hit with 15 cannons or reduce the effect or increase the cd.

nerf pirate never nerf brits or spain or french sad bring all ships back as in beta unnerfed and we alkl pvp in them nuff said lolfof
boris

[CJFlint]

One last thing to add, is the priv and no have pretty much the same skill too. I know the NO does atleast. 1 minute with 50 % turn rate loss. My opion is the game already goes easy on you for having your rudder damaged. In the real world it would be pretty cridical. Me presonaly hypothedicly speaking, say if I were pretty far off shore with a sail boat and I lost my rudder. I would probably consider calling the Coast Guard for help lol.

[Capitane Jean]

Originally Posted by CJFlint The style of sail boat I have sailed on "The Gaff Rig", pretty much like a sloop in game could turn without rudder. But not nearly as fast if the rudder was applied. So you guys are right in sence you can turn a sail boat without rudder. But not nearly as fast as you could with rudder. Sails and rudder are used in concert while sailing. You can turn using multible props WITH rudder as well. Using a rudder no matter what to turn a vessel is ideal. Most helmsmen that us multible props for turning its generaly for docking or making tight turn in say like a marina. Without rudders your kind of crippled in either situwation sail or modern rudders are cridical. Leaving out tug boats with props on each side of the ship....thats alittle different.

With all due and respect, your gaff rig is not equal to a Man 'o war. The force, angle, and relative size of the rudder and hulll, compared to the warship are VERY different. For a warship, it's rather the opposite: the rudder is fine adjustment while the sails are the ones that get you around, according to all sources I've found. That a rudder should always be Ideal is not at all true - I can turn around a rowboat way faster with the oars compared to any rudder, for example. For a sailing dinghie, yes, you can thrust it around and turn on a dime.

[Kaede_Baq]

If we wanted the game even more realistic, pirates would only be sailing sloops, and there would be no xebecs in the Caribbean, or being impossible to hit for 30 seconds every 30 minutes, or board from the bow.

The game is going a bit easy on the pirates, tbh.

[CJFlint]

Originally Posted by Sensou.Shichiya If we wanted the game even more realistic, pirates would only be sailing sloops, and there would be no xebecs in the Caribbean, or being impossible to hit for 30 seconds every 30 minutes, or board from the bow.

Kind of funny talked to Crestsilver one time, his soc is based off of the Corsairs. He says that the Corsairs sailed all over the world. It is plusable, but they probably did not play a huge role in the Caribbean. Crestsilver loves the Barbary Corsairs, he calls us all infedels lol

I like the Xbec style ship allot, a pretty interesting ship style. Those ships were def in the Mediterranean for the most part though. I still think there good in the game.

This is true what your saying normally pirates sailed smaller vessels and prefered to attack merchent ships like flutes. Imagine if they had a ship like the Khan, wolf in sheeps clothing back in those days. There was no ships like the treason, but in order to keep the pirate faction able to compete in this game the ship needs to be there. Of course this is a game and it a is a MMO with 4 sides, 3 of which that are the same. The pirates are different in some ways. Which cuases disputes.

The reality is this thread isnt really a nat vs rat dispute is you consider nats have the same skill on the priv and the no under a different name last I checked. I say leave the skill alone for the 3 classes that have them. The CT need the buffs and debuffs they have. If you take them away they are not really all that good at all. The CT is already pretty skwishy in my opion with that skill. The priv and no should be left as is I think too in regards to the skill.

Honestly the class latly I worry about the most on my CT if Im alone is the FT. Simalar to the Bucc they are pretty oped and can recover from massive damage allot easier then I can and deliver more damage. Even with that skill, Im still concerned if I get into with an FT that knows what they are doing. I have skirmished with buccs many of time, they are kind of the same story.

[Ships Be Sunk]

Originally Posted by Capitane Jean With risk of being called Capitane "Turn without rudder" Jean, I need to point out that engine driven warships are also able to turn without a rudder, in this case by altering thust on the different propeller shafts (naturally this requires at least two operating propellers, similar to how tanks and other tracked vehicles do). The Bismarck however, had a faulty design in this aspect, which was noted already on sea trials, that she* could not turn by propellers - even by backing one side and running the other side maximum forward, something that normally even enables ships to turn on the spot, only gave slight turning ability. *Traditionally ships are called "She", but the Bismarck's captain ordered that a ship so imposing was to be called "He"

bismarck was named he more so b/c of hitlers use of the fatherland idea, that they were too strong to be the motherland. the cpt of the ship was being dutifull to his furers wishes more than being original.

She could in fact turn by propellers but not in a way that was maneuverable enough to be helpfull. the ships draft and length was so great that the maneuverability of the ship was very low without rudder.

Besides the point of the bismarck sinking is rather moot as it is well know that the true cause of the bismarcks sinking is unknown. they are unable to truely determine if the ship was scuttled or sank by the final salvo of torpedoe's.


As far as this goes screw powered vessels function in a very different way than sailing ships so why are we talking about this?